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Old 25th February 2013, 07:40 AM   #1551
hesener is offline hesener  Germany
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Location: Munich, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by GandRalf View Post
Found a little amount of time at the weekend to work on the paradise.

One channel is working realy fine.
-The other is worse.

First I got -15,4V at the Output and on RIAA. Checked all mirrors and the inputstage.
After changing the trannies in the input (real close matched!!) the voltage changed to +15 V.
First thought about an error at measurement. But I`m shure that I picked the right polarity.

Any Ideas to solve this?
What's your servo output voltage? And, did you put a "neumann" resistor or a wire?
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Old 25th February 2013, 08:03 AM   #1552
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The servo output is + (or - ?)18V as I remember. Can`t check at the moment.

Neumann is a wire.
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Old 25th February 2013, 08:18 AM   #1553
hesener is offline hesener  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GandRalf View Post
The servo output is + (or - ?)18V as I remember. Can`t check at the moment.

Neumann is a wire.
Then somethign else is wrong. Can you please check the voltage on both ends of R5? Should be +/- 0.6V
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Old 25th February 2013, 09:25 AM   #1554
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Hallo Zusammen

Habe jetzt 4 Paradise Platinen gelötet, alle Werte waren OPTIMAL, nur der Offset Drift
ging von 120mv- bis 120mv +, was nur ein Temperatur problem ist.

Habe probehalber ein kleines Pappgehäuse über ALLE Kleintransistoren gebastelt, und
der Offset hat nur noch eine Drift von 5mv !!!

Jetzt bin ich zufrieden ;-))))

Lieben Gruß Heinz

********************************

translated by moderation

Hi

Paradise now have 4 boards soldered, all values ​​were OPTIMAL, only the offset drift
decreased from 120mV to 120mV, +, which is just a temperature problem.

Have ..(tentatively wrote(???))... a tiny Pappgehäuse about ALL small transistors, and
The offset is only a drift of 5mV!

Now I'm happy;-))))

Kind regards Heinz
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Old 25th February 2013, 09:48 AM   #1555
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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english please...forum rules


moderation
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Old 25th February 2013, 10:08 AM   #1556
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heijopo View Post
Hallo Zusammen

Habe jetzt 4 Paradise Platinen gelötet, alle Werte waren OPTIMAL, nur der Offset Drift
ging von 120mv- bis 120mv +, was nur ein Temperatur problem ist.

Habe probehalber ein kleines Pappgehäuse über ALLE Kleintransistoren gebastelt, und
der Offset hat nur noch eine Drift von 5mv !!!

Jetzt bin ich zufrieden ;-))))

Lieben Gruß Heinz

********************************

translated by moderation

Hi

Paradise now have 4 boards soldered, all values ​​were OPTIMAL, only the offset drift
decreased from 120mV to 120mV, +, which is just a temperature problem.

Have ..(tentatively wrote(???))... a tiny Pappgehäuse about ALL small transistors, and
The offset is only a drift of 5mV!

Now I'm happy;-))))

Kind regards Heinz
What is a 'Pappgehäuse'? Do not isolate the transistors, compleatly, from the environment! They will 'collect' heat, and then will over-heat (it's not a pretty sight ).
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Old 25th February 2013, 10:44 AM   #1557
hesener is offline hesener  Germany
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Originally Posted by FdW View Post
What is a 'Pappgehäuse'? Do not isolate the transistors, compleatly, from the environment! They will 'collect' heat, and then will over-heat (it's not a pretty sight ).
He was just trying... Nevertheless, that points towards an interesting insight, that simply by isolating from air movement the drift reduces significantly. Have to try this at home....

great job heinz! let us know your listening experience...
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Old 25th February 2013, 10:46 AM   #1558
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A "Pappgehäuse" is a little box made of paper or board.
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Old 25th February 2013, 11:04 AM   #1559
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Hi,
i have just finished populating the boards and i have no words on how thankful i am to the organizers if the pcb`s and the discrete element group by. alfred and joachin have gotten a lot of well deserved credit here, but all the work that went into sorting caps and resistors - this was birger`s part i understand - leave me with extreme gratitude.

now, while i am waiting for the transformers to set my stuff on fire i keep wondering about several things:

- the thermal drift issues in the entrance stage.

we all have seen how little temperature differences did mess up the hfe measurements, illustrating how disatrous temperature differences can be for a circuit full of high gain trannies. so how about thermocoupling pairs of transistors together?? the cardbord box heinz mentioned could be understood like this, thermocoupling by placing in the same (but totally uncontrolled - FdW) ambient temperature.
a far better way must be bridging all eight input transistors by glueing a copper bar across their tops, thus eliminating temperature differences without risk for thermal runaway? same with other functional pairs like, basically these circled in blue in the assembly guide. i did couple transistorpairs in my symasym, as it was mentioned in the documentation.

i leave other question unasked for now, as i make progress with my thermocoupling i will post pictures.

Last edited by hugenh; 25th February 2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 25th February 2013, 11:08 AM   #1560
pdul is offline pdul  Denmark
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Quote:
we all have seen how little temperature differences did mess the hfs measurements, so how about thermocoupling pairs of transistors together?? the cardbord box heinz mentioned could be understood like this, thermocoupling by placing in the same (but totally uncontrolled - FdW) ambient temperature.
how about bridging all eight input transistors by glueing a copper bar across their tops? same with other functional pairs like, basically these circled in blue in the assembly guide. i did couple transistorpairs in my symasym, as it was mentioned in the documentation.

i leave other question unasked for now, as i make progress with my thermocoupling i will post pictures.
What kind of glue will be good for this purpose?
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