I was wondering if this type of filter would do the job, yes.
Thanks for the explanation.
As I get closer to a machine I can walk away from ...
I got the coupling and collar and I think this might be an easier way to set up the machine and you will not have to leave home to do it.
Got them from: nutsandbolts.com
1 ea. 1/8 Inch Set Screw Shaft Collar Black Oxide Qty (10) $11.96
1 ea. 3/8-1/4 Single Split Shaft Coupling Black Oxide No Keyway Qty (1) $16.73
If someone would like a collar I have nine left. Cost plus postage. No need to buy ten more until I am out.
The coupling, being rather large, allows a good place to place a "ledge" underneath and give support to the motor shaft. I cut a piece of wood about 3/8 inch thick, three inches wide and about 3/4 inch deep (under the coupling) and glued it on with good "super glue". Just makes me feel better about things ...
I decided to use a wooden dowel instead of the drill stock and find one can friction fit the dowel into the coupling. There is no need to tighten the bolts. Just push it in.
I punched out all of the holes in the "motor housing". when I first used it I noticed there was a surprising amount of heat building up in there.
I installed a piece of PVC in the motor housing, the bottom hole, which then supports the assembly instead of it resting on the US machine. The length being long enough to touch the frame, or your table top depending on your set-up.
My "frame" is L-shaped - the machine can be moved around on the bottom piece for alignment. I have retained bbftx's pivot on the vertical part just because it is the easiest and the best way to do it.
My set-up is bulkier than bbftx but I have not had to touch the machine - no holes!
I am sticking with distilled water.
Thanks for the thermometer/meter recommendations. I am ordering one today.
THANKS to Ishmail for his bath temperature observations. This is very valuable.
Now I just need to coat the frame with some polyurethane since I used pine lumber it needs some protection.
When this is done I will take a picture of the ungainly thing.
Still waiting for my pump from SURPLUS SALES. Got my filter from one of the many places selling these things. What is strange is that I would have thought the housings would be a standard size. I cannot screw the top all of the way down with the filter I bought in place. Maybe the filter needs to be wet for this to happen? Since I do not have a pump not sure if this makes any difference. I think the pump is due to arrive today.
My contribution for the day!
Thanks to all but especially to bbftx! (The leader always deserves special praise)
I got the coupling and collar and I think this might be an easier way to set up the machine and you will not have to leave home to do it.
Got them from: nutsandbolts.com
1 ea. 1/8 Inch Set Screw Shaft Collar Black Oxide Qty (10) $11.96
1 ea. 3/8-1/4 Single Split Shaft Coupling Black Oxide No Keyway Qty (1) $16.73
If someone would like a collar I have nine left. Cost plus postage. No need to buy ten more until I am out.
The coupling, being rather large, allows a good place to place a "ledge" underneath and give support to the motor shaft. I cut a piece of wood about 3/8 inch thick, three inches wide and about 3/4 inch deep (under the coupling) and glued it on with good "super glue". Just makes me feel better about things ...
I decided to use a wooden dowel instead of the drill stock and find one can friction fit the dowel into the coupling. There is no need to tighten the bolts. Just push it in.
I punched out all of the holes in the "motor housing". when I first used it I noticed there was a surprising amount of heat building up in there.
I installed a piece of PVC in the motor housing, the bottom hole, which then supports the assembly instead of it resting on the US machine. The length being long enough to touch the frame, or your table top depending on your set-up.
My "frame" is L-shaped - the machine can be moved around on the bottom piece for alignment. I have retained bbftx's pivot on the vertical part just because it is the easiest and the best way to do it.
My set-up is bulkier than bbftx but I have not had to touch the machine - no holes!
I am sticking with distilled water.
Thanks for the thermometer/meter recommendations. I am ordering one today.
THANKS to Ishmail for his bath temperature observations. This is very valuable.
Now I just need to coat the frame with some polyurethane since I used pine lumber it needs some protection.
When this is done I will take a picture of the ungainly thing.
Still waiting for my pump from SURPLUS SALES. Got my filter from one of the many places selling these things. What is strange is that I would have thought the housings would be a standard size. I cannot screw the top all of the way down with the filter I bought in place. Maybe the filter needs to be wet for this to happen? Since I do not have a pump not sure if this makes any difference. I think the pump is due to arrive today.
My contribution for the day!
Thanks to all but especially to bbftx! (The leader always deserves special praise)
Filter and such
Rick, The filters and housings are more or less standard. To give a good seal between the inflow port and outflow port, the housings usually have a ridge that presses into the filter. See the attached photo. That little indentation around the core of the filter is created by the top of the housing when you screw it onto the housing. Since you're indenting the filter, it does present some resistance as you screw on the top.
I'm looking forward to seeing photos of your setup, especially the wooden spindle and your shaft coupling.
I'm going a different route: I'm adding a proper bronze bearing to my setup to support the metal spindle, and to take the bending weight off the motor shaft. This takes up less space than the type of split coupling you're adding. Will post pictures by early next week when completed so you can see what I'm talking about. I'll also use the same type of bearing for my version 2 setup that has a fixed motor housing instead of the rotating arm. I've also fashioned a new spindle design that doesn't require a set screw, based on your stated idea of a "quick disconnect" setup. This requires some fun, but fairly intricate lathe work, however, to create. Will post photos when complete.
Cheers,
B B
Rick, The filters and housings are more or less standard. To give a good seal between the inflow port and outflow port, the housings usually have a ridge that presses into the filter. See the attached photo. That little indentation around the core of the filter is created by the top of the housing when you screw it onto the housing. Since you're indenting the filter, it does present some resistance as you screw on the top.
I'm looking forward to seeing photos of your setup, especially the wooden spindle and your shaft coupling.
I'm going a different route: I'm adding a proper bronze bearing to my setup to support the metal spindle, and to take the bending weight off the motor shaft. This takes up less space than the type of split coupling you're adding. Will post pictures by early next week when completed so you can see what I'm talking about. I'll also use the same type of bearing for my version 2 setup that has a fixed motor housing instead of the rotating arm. I've also fashioned a new spindle design that doesn't require a set screw, based on your stated idea of a "quick disconnect" setup. This requires some fun, but fairly intricate lathe work, however, to create. Will post photos when complete.
Cheers,
B B
I am sure your setup will be more elegant than mine
Though I wonder if going with a bearing is not complete overkill which makes it just about right for us audio kooks! I am sure I will be sincerely jealous when I see it!.
I went with the coupling for ease and simplicity. It just turned out to work better than I thought it would. The friction fit aspect was not envisioned when I ordered the stuff.
I had thought about doing away with the swinging arm but it is easy to implement and does not require any precision. My whole set-up requires no precision since there are so many places where one can wiggle things around.
I am placing the filter in correctly - the top of the housing will not touch the bottom which seems like it should. My pump did not arrive today as promised by UPS so I have to wait another day to see if there are enough threads used to get a seal on the filter.
Now if only I had working amplifiers ...
Though I wonder if going with a bearing is not complete overkill which makes it just about right for us audio kooks! I am sure I will be sincerely jealous when I see it!.
I went with the coupling for ease and simplicity. It just turned out to work better than I thought it would. The friction fit aspect was not envisioned when I ordered the stuff.
I had thought about doing away with the swinging arm but it is easy to implement and does not require any precision. My whole set-up requires no precision since there are so many places where one can wiggle things around.
I am placing the filter in correctly - the top of the housing will not touch the bottom which seems like it should. My pump did not arrive today as promised by UPS so I have to wait another day to see if there are enough threads used to get a seal on the filter.
Now if only I had working amplifiers ...
Bearing
Nice Shaun, what's that motor can and gearbox you're using? You've obviously been a busy bee crafting parts, assembling components and not telling us!
I'm going with a simple flanged bronze bushing as a bearing, sitting in a pillow block housing. At about $7 for the two components, it's cheaper than your split coupling, Rick!
What brand filter housing and what brand and type of filter do you have, Rick?
Best,
B B
Nice Shaun, what's that motor can and gearbox you're using? You've obviously been a busy bee crafting parts, assembling components and not telling us!
I'm going with a simple flanged bronze bushing as a bearing, sitting in a pillow block housing. At about $7 for the two components, it's cheaper than your split coupling, Rick!
What brand filter housing and what brand and type of filter do you have, Rick?
Best,
B B
It is a 12V 0.6RPM motor/gearbox combo like this: Free shipping.DC 12V/0.6rpm/25kg.cm micro gear motor-in DC Motor from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com.
The brass piece serves as both shaft coupler and adaptor for the 12mm ID bearing. This I turned on my lathe. I could only find a very small plastic pillow block locally. I liked the elegance of the swing arm loader arrangement, so I'll be mounting the motor and bearing on opposite sides of some 50mm square extrusion (most of the brass part will be inside).
The project is going a bit slow, and I did not want to share anything before I was sure it was working, but rickmcinnis' post prompted me to share.
Bearing for the Spindle
Here are some photos of the bearing I added to support the LP spindle on my ultrasonic record cleaner. This really should have been part of the design in the first place so that the motor shaft would not be subjected to too much bending weight. Thanks to Rick for prompting me to address this problem! Shaun is incorporating a different bearing setup in his project too.
As the photos show, this bearing setup will support the spindle whether the rotating arm of the URC is in the up or down position. You won't need a support on the far end of the LP spindle if you use this bearing setup.
LP spindles are an odd size --- 9/32" or 0.281" in diameter. This is not a standard shaft size so there are very few fittings and parts to be found. I finally found a bronze flange bearing for a 9/32" shaft at Stock Drive Products / Sterling Instrument www.sdp-si.com
The bearing pillow block housing (part # A 7Z28-P038) is sintered aluminum. There are two sintered bronze flange bearings (part # A 7B 4-F007) that are press fit into the bearing housing. I actually reamed out the bronze bearings a few thousandths of an inch to give a looser fit and make it easier to use a detachable spindle (more on the quick connect spindle in another message). If you don't have the means to bore out the bearing, you could probably get away with using an oversized bearing since this is a low rpm, low power application. Part # A 7B 4-P022 is 0.313 inside diameter (5/16", or 1/32" oversize), but will fit in the same housing. It's longer, so you would only need one oversized bronze bearing, not 2.
Cheers,
B B
Here are some photos of the bearing I added to support the LP spindle on my ultrasonic record cleaner. This really should have been part of the design in the first place so that the motor shaft would not be subjected to too much bending weight. Thanks to Rick for prompting me to address this problem! Shaun is incorporating a different bearing setup in his project too.
As the photos show, this bearing setup will support the spindle whether the rotating arm of the URC is in the up or down position. You won't need a support on the far end of the LP spindle if you use this bearing setup.
LP spindles are an odd size --- 9/32" or 0.281" in diameter. This is not a standard shaft size so there are very few fittings and parts to be found. I finally found a bronze flange bearing for a 9/32" shaft at Stock Drive Products / Sterling Instrument www.sdp-si.com
The bearing pillow block housing (part # A 7Z28-P038) is sintered aluminum. There are two sintered bronze flange bearings (part # A 7B 4-F007) that are press fit into the bearing housing. I actually reamed out the bronze bearings a few thousandths of an inch to give a looser fit and make it easier to use a detachable spindle (more on the quick connect spindle in another message). If you don't have the means to bore out the bearing, you could probably get away with using an oversized bearing since this is a low rpm, low power application. Part # A 7B 4-P022 is 0.313 inside diameter (5/16", or 1/32" oversize), but will fit in the same housing. It's longer, so you would only need one oversized bronze bearing, not 2.
Cheers,
B B
Gents,
I ran into this video on YouTube of a Japanese DIY project that incorporates brushes at/below the waterline.
http://youtu.be/TKRq9LvfBUQ
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I ran into this video on YouTube of a Japanese DIY project that incorporates brushes at/below the waterline.
http://youtu.be/TKRq9LvfBUQ
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Thoughts on the "shaft"
I decided to use wood since it was quickly available from Home Depot.
I have found that the diameter of the shaft is not critical.
What matters in my setup is that the cork spacers remain tight on the shaft. The cork spacers contact with the LP is what turns the LP. Maybe if the turning was at a faster rate this would not work so well but at the speed we are using it is more than sufficient.
My comment made to make the project less daunting for those reading our exploits.
bbftx your refinements are truly refined! I am sticking with my rudimentary approach since it works just fine but is not visually impressive. And most of all I am lazy so when something works ...
Waiting for a few parts to get the pump working and then ...
(My Home Depot has a very poor selection of hose barbs)
I decided to use wood since it was quickly available from Home Depot.
I have found that the diameter of the shaft is not critical.
What matters in my setup is that the cork spacers remain tight on the shaft. The cork spacers contact with the LP is what turns the LP. Maybe if the turning was at a faster rate this would not work so well but at the speed we are using it is more than sufficient.
My comment made to make the project less daunting for those reading our exploits.
bbftx your refinements are truly refined! I am sticking with my rudimentary approach since it works just fine but is not visually impressive. And most of all I am lazy so when something works ...
Waiting for a few parts to get the pump working and then ...
(My Home Depot has a very poor selection of hose barbs)
USC
Here is my effort. I made the spindle from 5/16 rod and a brass bushing to take the weight off the motor. It was a mistake to place the bushing in the center of the box cover and I had to grind the inside of the box so the motor sat free of any interference. I attached the motor to the box with some clear silicone and it allows enough movement so the motor shaft isn't carrying any weight. I'm using foam from a kneeling pad for the garden to separate and drive the LP's. The innermost one is glued to a round box cover which is fixed to the shaft with a shaft coupler and adhesive. Another box cover and coupler sandwich the albums and foam and provide the drive. I made the foam pucks with a homemade hole saw built from plywood a bolt and a tin can.
I have a Nitty Gritty cleaner and this is much much better. The lead in and lead out grooves are nearly silent and I'm hearing a whole new level of detail that I have never heard before. This is definitely money well spent. I did try rotating the albums manually before I got the motor. It works much better with the motor. Mine is 1 revolution every 5 minutes. I clean for 15 minutes.
I am covering the solution with cellophane between uses and have been using this same solution for 2 weeks. The cellophane floats on top mostly. There has been a barely perceptible level drop. I think that many of us will only clean the albums that they will listen to that day. It would be costly and a real pain to make up new solution every day. I don't think this will be necessary. I'm just going to keep using the solution until I see signs of contamination and then change it thus avoiding the cost of the pump and filters.
Here is my effort. I made the spindle from 5/16 rod and a brass bushing to take the weight off the motor. It was a mistake to place the bushing in the center of the box cover and I had to grind the inside of the box so the motor sat free of any interference. I attached the motor to the box with some clear silicone and it allows enough movement so the motor shaft isn't carrying any weight. I'm using foam from a kneeling pad for the garden to separate and drive the LP's. The innermost one is glued to a round box cover which is fixed to the shaft with a shaft coupler and adhesive. Another box cover and coupler sandwich the albums and foam and provide the drive. I made the foam pucks with a homemade hole saw built from plywood a bolt and a tin can.
I have a Nitty Gritty cleaner and this is much much better. The lead in and lead out grooves are nearly silent and I'm hearing a whole new level of detail that I have never heard before. This is definitely money well spent. I did try rotating the albums manually before I got the motor. It works much better with the motor. Mine is 1 revolution every 5 minutes. I clean for 15 minutes.
I am covering the solution with cellophane between uses and have been using this same solution for 2 weeks. The cellophane floats on top mostly. There has been a barely perceptible level drop. I think that many of us will only clean the albums that they will listen to that day. It would be costly and a real pain to make up new solution every day. I don't think this will be necessary. I'm just going to keep using the solution until I see signs of contamination and then change it thus avoiding the cost of the pump and filters.
BellDream URC
Hi CT0wens,
That's not a DIY machine. It's made and sold by a company called BellDream in Japan. Runs about $1650 I think.
The noise is awful, which can be a sign of cheaper ultrasonic transducers operating at a lower frequency. That, or a lot of stuff is vibrating too!
I think the use of the thin rods sticking into the slots in the plastic knobs to power rotation is clever; very much like a splined coupling.
But it looks like it would take forever to load the machine. Setting up just a single record looks like it involves a lot of parts on the spindle. Speed of rotation looks to be too rapid in my opinion. And the brushes --- no thanks....
I think we can all do better, for fewer yen!
Cheers,
B B
Hi CT0wens,
That's not a DIY machine. It's made and sold by a company called BellDream in Japan. Runs about $1650 I think.
The noise is awful, which can be a sign of cheaper ultrasonic transducers operating at a lower frequency. That, or a lot of stuff is vibrating too!
I think the use of the thin rods sticking into the slots in the plastic knobs to power rotation is clever; very much like a splined coupling.
But it looks like it would take forever to load the machine. Setting up just a single record looks like it involves a lot of parts on the spindle. Speed of rotation looks to be too rapid in my opinion. And the brushes --- no thanks....
I think we can all do better, for fewer yen!
Cheers,
B B
Spindle
Hi LFM,
Neat, simple setup. Is that a flanged bushing that you used, with the flange up against the inside of the motor housing cover?
Also, did you turn down the diameter on the non-motor end of the 5/16" rod you started with so that the LP holes will fit over it?
Best regards,
B B
Hi LFM,
Neat, simple setup. Is that a flanged bushing that you used, with the flange up against the inside of the motor housing cover?
Also, did you turn down the diameter on the non-motor end of the 5/16" rod you started with so that the LP holes will fit over it?
Best regards,
B B
The crux: simplicity is the key (thanks, bbftx)
Sometimes it takes courage to do as little as possible when "more is better" is the operative phrase for much of audio hobbydom.
Not only am I appreciative of bbftx putting together this easy to duplicate scheme for record cleaning, it might be his greatest gift is his telling us that too much IS too much.
Why are brushes considered sacrosanct when it comes to cleaning records? Just because they USED to be all we had does not mean they have some kind of inherent goodness to them. They are an old tool that has been superseded. They are NOT needed.
If they were needed why am I hearing so much new information on records previously cleaned with brushes? This new tool is superior and we should be content to let it do its job as it was intended to do it.
I am still dithering over whether or not to touch the record AT ALL after cleaning. I think I am hearing better sound by letting them drip/air dry. When three are on a spindle they stand straight up with no support and no side forces. Doesn't take that long.
It makes sense that not touching them at all with anything is best - no microfiber cloths - no diapers - no velour pads on vacuum machines - nothing.
Just as with an SET amplifier - simplicity is the key.
Sometimes it takes courage to do as little as possible when "more is better" is the operative phrase for much of audio hobbydom.
Not only am I appreciative of bbftx putting together this easy to duplicate scheme for record cleaning, it might be his greatest gift is his telling us that too much IS too much.
Why are brushes considered sacrosanct when it comes to cleaning records? Just because they USED to be all we had does not mean they have some kind of inherent goodness to them. They are an old tool that has been superseded. They are NOT needed.
If they were needed why am I hearing so much new information on records previously cleaned with brushes? This new tool is superior and we should be content to let it do its job as it was intended to do it.
I am still dithering over whether or not to touch the record AT ALL after cleaning. I think I am hearing better sound by letting them drip/air dry. When three are on a spindle they stand straight up with no support and no side forces. Doesn't take that long.
It makes sense that not touching them at all with anything is best - no microfiber cloths - no diapers - no velour pads on vacuum machines - nothing.
Just as with an SET amplifier - simplicity is the key.
ultrasonic cleaner
Yes I did turn down the 5/16 rod to the proper diameter. I have a Taig modellers lathe which works great. The motor end was drilled for the motor shaft and drilled for a small set screw to lock it in place. The bushing is brass and was drilled to the next smallest size drill bit I had as compared to the rod. I then turned and filed the rod until I had the fit I liked. The box cover was drilled to have a very tight interference fit with the brass bushing. I used my vice and some wood scraps to press the bushing into the hole. I forgot to mention that I turned a small shoulder on the bushing so things would be tight and square. The bushing does not bottom on the motor housing but its close. I wanted a little freedom for the motor to move on its silicone mounting pad and to let the bushing carry all the weight.
Yes I did turn down the 5/16 rod to the proper diameter. I have a Taig modellers lathe which works great. The motor end was drilled for the motor shaft and drilled for a small set screw to lock it in place. The bushing is brass and was drilled to the next smallest size drill bit I had as compared to the rod. I then turned and filed the rod until I had the fit I liked. The box cover was drilled to have a very tight interference fit with the brass bushing. I used my vice and some wood scraps to press the bushing into the hole. I forgot to mention that I turned a small shoulder on the bushing so things would be tight and square. The bushing does not bottom on the motor housing but its close. I wanted a little freedom for the motor to move on its silicone mounting pad and to let the bushing carry all the weight.
Would this not depend upon the orientation of the transducer, within the fluid bath?
the next trick would be to seal the unit, with records in it... and bring it up to about 2-3 bar. heh heh heh.....
Loading and Spacing
Hi KBK,
Turns out spacing and loading depend more on the capacity limitations of the machine to clean a given amount of surface area. This is covered in a later posting in this thread than the one you quoted. Here's a direct link to Post #44 that explains:
Loading and Spacing
The units we're talking about generally have three 50 watt transducers along the bottom of the tank. Single transducer units would not work well, particularly with the multiple records.
Cheers,
B B
Hi KBK,
Turns out spacing and loading depend more on the capacity limitations of the machine to clean a given amount of surface area. This is covered in a later posting in this thread than the one you quoted. Here's a direct link to Post #44 that explains:
Loading and Spacing
The units we're talking about generally have three 50 watt transducers along the bottom of the tank. Single transducer units would not work well, particularly with the multiple records.
Cheers,
B B
12 VDC filter system
I've had my filtration system running for about 10 days now with very good results. It's basically BB's design except for 2 changes: I'm using a 12 VDC pump for compatibility with the power to my rotisserie, and I added a valve downstream of the filter housing to control the flow rate (red handle in the attached photo).
I run with the valve wide open when not actively cleaning to maximize the filtration rate (keeping in mind that with a recirculating design, we only approach filtration of every suspended particle asymptotically). During active cleaning, I use the valve to limit the return flow velocity, to mitigate possible reduction in the ultrasonic cleaning efficiency. My pump is somewhat oversized, and it generates enough flow through the filter to visibly interfere with the standing wave pattern in the tank. The valve might not be necessary or useful for pumps with lower flow rates.
I'm using an Attwood Potable Water Pump, available from Amazon for $29.85. It's ready to go out of the box, with two 3/8" barbs installed. So, set up only involved mounting on a wooden block with 2 screws, attaching two hoses to the cleaner and filter, and wiring the power. It's a little noisier than I'd hoped --- but no louder than the noise from the ultrasound machine, so not a big deal.
By the way, running the filtration system provides excellent mixing. The temperature field goes from highly stratified to essentially uniform in about 15 seconds. So, managing my heating problems is automatic now.
I've had my filtration system running for about 10 days now with very good results. It's basically BB's design except for 2 changes: I'm using a 12 VDC pump for compatibility with the power to my rotisserie, and I added a valve downstream of the filter housing to control the flow rate (red handle in the attached photo).
I run with the valve wide open when not actively cleaning to maximize the filtration rate (keeping in mind that with a recirculating design, we only approach filtration of every suspended particle asymptotically). During active cleaning, I use the valve to limit the return flow velocity, to mitigate possible reduction in the ultrasonic cleaning efficiency. My pump is somewhat oversized, and it generates enough flow through the filter to visibly interfere with the standing wave pattern in the tank. The valve might not be necessary or useful for pumps with lower flow rates.
I'm using an Attwood Potable Water Pump, available from Amazon for $29.85. It's ready to go out of the box, with two 3/8" barbs installed. So, set up only involved mounting on a wooden block with 2 screws, attaching two hoses to the cleaner and filter, and wiring the power. It's a little noisier than I'd hoped --- but no louder than the noise from the ultrasound machine, so not a big deal.
By the way, running the filtration system provides excellent mixing. The temperature field goes from highly stratified to essentially uniform in about 15 seconds. So, managing my heating problems is automatic now.