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My version of an Ultrasonic Record Cleaner
My version of an Ultrasonic Record Cleaner
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:50 AM   #1871
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Location: Melbourne (Oz, not Florida!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenAgenda View Post
I wanted to check some advice on this as distilled water, is it pure enough?

Distilled Water 99.99% Ultrapure CHOOSE your size 50ml-25 Litre **High Quality** | eBay

Specification
Molecular Formula: H2O
Molecular Weight: 18.02
Boiling Point: 100 deg C
Refractive Index: n20/D 1.34(lit.)
Conductivity: Resistivity: >1MΩ.cm
pH: 5.8-7.5
Nitrite (NO2):
Nitrate (NO3):
Silicon (Si): <0.04gm/L
Silcates (SiO2): Sodium (Na): Chloride (Cl): TOC: < 0.15 mg/L
Endotoxins: TVC (2 Days): 0 cfu/ml
TVC (3 Days): 0 cfu/ml
AIUI, the essential issue is ... was it made by evaporation (ie. boiling tap water) ... or pushing cold water through a membrane?

The former is the way to go.

Andy
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:22 AM   #1872
bbftx is offline bbftx  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenAgenda View Post
I wanted to check some advice on this as distilled water, is it pure enough?

Distilled Water 99.99% Ultrapure CHOOSE your size 50ml-25 Litre **High Quality** | eBay
That water is horrendously overpriced. And the specs don't make any sense. If it really is only "99.99% pure", that means it would have 100 ppm (parts per million) of dissolved solids. That's fine to use for a record cleaning solution, but true distilled water should be about 1ppm. Tap water is typically 300 to 500 ppm.
Purified water is 10 ppm or less and is more than good enough for this application. Here in the US, I buy either purified or distilled, whichever happens to be cheaper in bulk (i.e. 1 gallon or larger jugs) at the local grocery store. 88 cents per gallon is the going rate for distilled right now at the nearest store.

Buying any kind of water online and having it shipped really doesn't make sense because transporting water by post is very expensive.
Good luck, but there is no need to pay so much for water. If deionized water is cheaper and more readily available in the UK, it will work very well too.
B B

Last edited by bbftx; 7th February 2018 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 11:21 AM   #1873
lcsaszar is offline lcsaszar  Hungary
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PH: 5.8 - 7.5 ? I learnt that the PH of water is the reference 7.0
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Old 7th February 2018, 01:04 PM   #1874
Packgrog is offline Packgrog  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenAgenda View Post
I wanted to check some advice on this as distilled water, is it pure enough?

Distilled Water 99.99% Ultrapure CHOOSE your size 50ml-25 Litre **High Quality** | eBay

Specification
Molecular Formula: H2O
Molecular Weight: 18.02
Boiling Point: 100 deg C
Refractive Index: n20/D 1.34(lit.)
Conductivity: Resistivity: >1MΩ.cm
pH: 5.8-7.5
Nitrite (NO2):
Nitrate (NO3):
Silicon (Si): <0.04gm/L
Silcates (SiO2): Sodium (Na): Chloride (Cl): TOC: < 0.15 mg/L
Endotoxins: TVC (2 Days): 0 cfu/ml
TVC (3 Days): 0 cfu/ml


I also bought Tergikleen, I just do not know enough about the various recipes i see online to trust I am doing a good job so this seems to have good reviews and only gripe seems to be the price. IM sure it is really expensive if you have knowledge of how to mix and make this stuff yourself but I am just an end user who just wants the best results.

TERGIKLEEN™ Record Cleaning Solution with Tergitol™ Professional Record Cleaning | eBay
For ultrasonic tank fluid, there's not much point in using anything more expensive than CVS distilled water.

If you're going to use TergiKleen, only use 10 drops per gallon of regular distilled water, and you MUST rinse & vacuum it off afterward, which is where lab grade water could potentially be helpful as a final rinse. First rinse with regular distilled water is fine, to get the bulk of remaining chemicals out of the groove. Whether the second rinse with lab grade water really makes a difference, I'm honestly not sure, but I'm paranoid about leaving any chemicals in the grooves. If you do go the lab/reagent grade water rinse route, I wouldn't go more expensive than this: Ricca 9150-1 Water, ACS Reagent Grade, ASTM Type I, ASTM Type II, in plastic containers, 4 L: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific and again, the actual usefulness of that is debatable.

I can't say that this is better or worse than bbftx's no-vacuum approach with Isopropyl, but I'm paranoid about the effects of Iso, and I had tendencies for a pop or two developing when using his approach, so now I just use the ultrasonic as the first/main cleaning step.

Last edited by Packgrog; 7th February 2018 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 02:26 PM   #1875
HiddenAgenda is offline HiddenAgenda
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyr View Post
AIUI, the essential issue is ... was it made by evaporation (ie. boiling tap water) ... or pushing cold water through a membrane?

The former is the way to go.

Andy
Thanks I will make sure to ask this before buying anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bbftx View Post
That water is horrendously overpriced. And the specs don't make any sense. If it really is only "99.99% pure", that means it would have 100 ppm (parts per million) of dissolved solids. That's fine to use for a record cleaning solution, but true distilled water should be about 1ppm. Tap water is typically 300 to 500 ppm.
Purified water is 10 ppm or less and is more than good enough for this application. Here in the US, I buy either purified or distilled, whichever happens to be cheaper in bulk (i.e. 1 gallon or larger jugs) at the local grocery store. 88 cents per gallon is the going rate for distilled right now at the nearest store.

Buying any kind of water online and having it shipped really doesn't make sense because transporting water by post is very expensive.
Good luck, but there is no need to pay so much for water. If deionized water is cheaper and more readily available in the UK, it will work very well too.
B B
I found some engine water for around $5 for 5L which is DeIonized which I am going to get to test but I still want distilled so I can try that also.

Halfords Battery Top-Up Water 5L

I was going to buy one of these just to allow me to test both and see what works to my ear

Distilled Water - Buy from the UK's leading B2B chemical suppliers, ReAgent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Packgrog View Post
For ultrasonic tank fluid, there's not much point in using anything more expensive than CVS distilled water.

If you're going to use TergiKleen, only use 10 drops per gallon of regular distilled water, and you MUST rinse & vacuum it off afterward, which is where lab grade water could potentially be helpful as a final rinse. First rinse with regular distilled water is fine, to get the bulk of remaining chemicals out of the groove. Whether the second rinse with lab grade water really makes a difference, I'm honestly not sure, but I'm paranoid about leaving any chemicals in the grooves. If you do go the lab/reagent grade water rinse route, I wouldn't go more expensive than this: Ricca 9150-1 Water, ACS Reagent Grade, ASTM Type I, ASTM Type II, in plastic containers, 4 L: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific and again, the actual usefulness of that is debatable.

I can't say that this is better or worse than bbftx's no-vacuum approach with Isopropyl, but I'm paranoid about the effects of Iso, and I had tendencies for a pop or two developing when using his approach, so now I just use the ultrasonic as the first/main cleaning step.
Thanks for the TergiKleen tip. I had no idea how much to use so that is great.

What would be really awesome is to pull together an FAQ on cleaning not sure if that exist yet but I am willing to gather as much info as I can and have people correct me if I am talking rubbish to help complete n00bs like myself

Last edited by HiddenAgenda; 7th February 2018 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 02:33 PM   #1876
Packgrog is offline Packgrog  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Philadelphia area
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenAgenda View Post
What would be really awesome is to pull together an FAQ on cleaning not sure if that exist yet but I am willing to gather as much info as I can and have people correct me if I am talking rubbish to help complete n00bs like myself
My version of an Ultrasonic Record Cleaner

That's just one person's experiences.

This thread is insane, but has a lot of different experiences throughout.
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Old 8th February 2018, 08:42 PM   #1877
VibratoLLC is offline VibratoLLC  United States
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Location: Charleston, SC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenAgenda View Post
Thanks I will make sure to ask this before buying anything.




I found some engine water for around $5 for 5L which is DeIonized which I am going to get to test but I still want distilled so I can try that also.

Halfords Battery Top-Up Water 5L

I was going to buy one of these just to allow me to test both and see what works to my ear

Distilled Water - Buy from the UK's leading B2B chemical suppliers, ReAgent.





Thanks for the TergiKleen tip. I had no idea how much to use so that is great.

What would be really awesome is to pull together an FAQ on cleaning not sure if that exist yet but I am willing to gather as much info as I can and have people correct me if I am talking rubbish to help complete n00bs like myself

I would advise against using De-Ionized water, as it will pull ions out of the stainless steel tank !

-Louis
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:59 AM   #1878
HiddenAgenda is offline HiddenAgenda
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by VibratoLLC View Post
I would advise against using De-Ionized water, as it will pull ions out of the stainless steel tank !

-Louis
OH!

Well my tank is from you so I will certainly take that advice
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:52 PM   #1879
GTHICM is offline GTHICM  United States
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I do not think that DI water presents any issues, but in fact would be preferred.

Questions and answers about Ultrasonic Cleaning
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Old 9th February 2018, 03:14 PM   #1880
bbftx is offline bbftx  United States
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Here's the deal on deionized water. It does want to absorb ions from wherever it can. It readily does this from the air (CO2 and dust). Unless you're running a URC that is a closed system not exposed to the atmosphere, you will not have any problems in a stainless tank.

Even if the DI water absorbs ions from the steel instead of the air, it takes very, very, very little ionization to reach equilibrium. Equilibrium happens in minutes, rather than hours. The water will still be more than clean enough for record cleaning, at less than 1ppm of TDS, and your open air stainless tank will be unharmed.

Numerous studies support the use of stainless steel (particularly 316 stainless) for piping and tanks holding DI water, even for months at a time. Note the high compatibility ratings of stainless in these references:
Graco Chem Guide for DI

NASA Research

Where DI water can cause problems in stainless steel systems is where there are stainless steel welds that aren't done the proper way. This is why some people think DI water cannot be contained in stainless --- because the welding issue was misinterpreted to be a general stainless steel issue. Unless your tank has welds exposed to the DI water, there will not be issues.

Your goal is to get clean water for your bath. Whether it's DI, or distilled, or purified; any of these options will work and given the intermittent service conditions, you won't have any problems in this application. I suggest one uses whichever is most economical in your area.
Cheers,
B B
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