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Old 5th October 2012, 07:21 PM   #111
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Location: Vancouver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmail View Post
Hi Vinyladdict and BB,

I'm still lurking here and following your experiences and ideas with interest.

I have nothing to report yet, but have parts starting to come in now for a design that is a hybrid between the designs on this thread and the Bent Audio prototype that never made it to market (see below). Features that might be of interest include an alternative take on the spacers between the LPs, the ability to easily move the entire 'rotisserie' unit from the ultrasonic cleaner onto third-size polycarbonate food pans for rinse or presoak steps (the pans also have airtight lids for storing the liquids between runs), and a variable-speed DC motor to explore different rotational speeds and cycle times for cleaning, rinsing and drying.

One thing that still confounds me is the discrepancy between the ~10 RPM speed the Audio Desk cleaner uses during its cleaning cycle of only 1-2 minutes vs. the much slower speeds and longer cycles used all across the diy community. The AD cleaner only slows down to roughly 1 RPM for drying.

I'm not sure how much difference rinsing will make, but the on-line info from the ultrasonic cleaning industry claims it's important. I've also ordered some Alconox free-rinsing detergent as an alternative to isopropyl alcohol and photo flow. You might find some of this information useful. They recommend about 120 degrees F for cleaning with the Alconox detergent. If this proves inferior to alcohol + photoflow, I can still use it to clean stainless flatware, glasses, etc.

I'll post results as I get them.
Thanks for the update Ishmail. My motor is scheduled to arrive on October 10 so I hope to be fully operational next week. Spinning by hand is not ideal but it has been valuable in helping me experiment with cleaning solution recipes and water temps.

I am currently using a distilled water / IPA / Triton X-100 mixture that seems to be doing the job. I am curious about experimenting with rinsing as I am still having difficulty wrapping my head around the air drying. I am looking forward to hearing about your experiences with Alconox. The Triton X I use was given to me from a friend of mine who works in a lab. The Triton is difficult and expensive to source up here so I am on the hunt to find a better solution. Is the Alconox easy to source and how much does it cost?
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Old 5th October 2012, 09:46 PM   #112
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Vinyladdict,

I ordered the Alconox from BP Medical Supplies via Amazon; sometimes Techni-Tools comes up as the preferred vendor. The best price I found was about $31 shipped within the US for a 4-lb carton of powder that should last a long time. The user reviews are very positive. There is also a liquid form, Liquinox, that contains the same cleaner. It took a full week before it shipped, but it's on its way now.

Alconox is intended for commercial/industrial/lab use. It contains phosphates which are banned in domestic detergents in the US. Policies are a bit greener where you are, so I don't know if that's an issue for you or your government. If it is, there are some phosphate-free offerings from Alconox you can research on the company's website. We would use very small amounts in our ultrasonic cleaning application, so my conscience is pretty clear.

Check out the Alconox Canada website. Seems like it's OK where you are.

Triton X-100 is also available on US Amazon, but only ships within the US.

I found this quote in the wikipedia article on Triton X-100: Apart from laboratory use, Triton X-100 can be found in several types of cleaning compounds,[3] ranging from heavy-duty industrial products to gentle detergents. It is also a popular ingredient in homemade vinyl record cleaning fluids together with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. This is interesting information for cost-efficient traditional vacuum cleaning. It suggests it's also a good choice for our use, but that rinsing is important (based on the usual instructions for this type of cleaner from AIVS, etc.). Perhaps it leaves a film that attracts dirt over time if left to dry without rinsing, but does not initially detract from the sound. The high viscosity of X-100 makes me think a rinse is a good idea.
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Old 10th October 2012, 05:27 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmail View Post
Vinyladdict,

I ordered the Alconox from BP Medical Supplies via Amazon; sometimes Techni-Tools comes up as the preferred vendor. The best price I found was about $31 shipped within the US for a 4-lb carton of powder that should last a long time. The user reviews are very positive. There is also a liquid form, Liquinox, that contains the same cleaner. It took a full week before it shipped, but it's on its way now.

Alconox is intended for commercial/industrial/lab use. It contains phosphates which are banned in domestic detergents in the US. Policies are a bit greener where you are, so I don't know if that's an issue for you or your government. If it is, there are some phosphate-free offerings from Alconox you can research on the company's website. We would use very small amounts in our ultrasonic cleaning application, so my conscience is pretty clear.

Check out the Alconox Canada website. Seems like it's OK where you are.

Triton X-100 is also available on US Amazon, but only ships within the US.

I found this quote in the wikipedia article on Triton X-100: Apart from laboratory use, Triton X-100 can be found in several types of cleaning compounds,[3] ranging from heavy-duty industrial products to gentle detergents. It is also a popular ingredient in homemade vinyl record cleaning fluids together with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. This is interesting information for cost-efficient traditional vacuum cleaning. It suggests it's also a good choice for our use, but that rinsing is important (based on the usual instructions for this type of cleaner from AIVS, etc.). Perhaps it leaves a film that attracts dirt over time if left to dry without rinsing, but does not initially detract from the sound. The high viscosity of X-100 makes me think a rinse is a good idea.
Thanks for the info Ishmail. I have about 200ML of Triton X left so I have some time to do some research on alternatives such as Alconox. Please let me know your opinion on it once you have tried it for yourself.

How is your build coming? My motor arrives tomorrow (so says UPS), so I will be cleaning all my garage sale finds in earnest later this week.

BB - How is the filter system prototype coming along?
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Old 10th October 2012, 08:10 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbftx View Post
I fashioned a spindle out of 9/32 W1 drill rod. It was was easy to machine a 1/8" diameter hole in one end of the spindle on my lathe to fit over the motor shaft (1/8" diameter).
The motor and shaft are mounted in place using an electrical connector box and conduit. The arm is mounted to the ultrasonic unit using L-brackets and pipe straps. The setup allows the motor and spindle assembly to be rotated up to load records, and then rotated down into the bath.
My spacers are 4" diameter, 1/2" thick cork rounds.
BB
BB I was wondering if you can give some guidance on drilling the holes in the face plate where the spindle comes out of the motor box. What process did you use do determine where to drill the holes for the spindle and mounting screws.

Thanks
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Old 11th October 2012, 04:46 AM   #115
bbftx is online now bbftx  United States
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Default Motor Mount Holes for BB's URC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyladdict View Post
BB I was wondering if you can give some guidance on drilling the holes in the face plate where the spindle comes out of the motor box. What process did you use do determine where to drill the holes for the spindle and mounting screws.

Thanks
Addict -- a drawing is attached. I basically found the center of the round junction box cover (center of line drawn between screw holes) and laid out the holes from there according to the dimensional drawing of the Synchron motor.

BB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BB URC Motor Holes.003.jpg (72.6 KB, 725 views)
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Old 11th October 2012, 04:42 PM   #116
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Hey BB! As usual you exceed expectations. I really appreciate the effort and time your put in to help us out!
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Old 11th October 2012, 08:23 PM   #117
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Hey BB,

Sorry for being a PITA but I have a few questions as I get my motor setup.

The rotating arm mechanism seems to be a bit loose and "flops" around a bit more than I expected so I am wondering if I have made some errors.

- How tight are the pipe straps on the 1/2" PVC pipe? Does the pipe move freely or is there some resistance?

- I was also wondering how warm the motor gets in your build? In my limited testing I have noticed that the motor case cover gets warm after a few minutes. Not hot, just warm.

Last edited by Vinyladdict; 11th October 2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 11th October 2012, 09:46 PM   #118
bbftx is online now bbftx  United States
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Default Arm mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyladdict View Post
The rotating arm mechanism seems to be a bit loose and "flops" around a bit more than I expected so I am wondering if I have made some errors.

- How tight are the pipe straps on the 1/2" PVC pipe? Does the pipe move freely or is there some resistance?

- I was also wondering how warm the motor gets in your build? In my limited testing I have noticed that the motor case cover gets warm after a few minutes. Not hot, just warm.
The pipe straps and how much they are tightened are the way to manage the "tightness" or resistance of the arm movement so that it doesn't flop around. The attached photo shows a little more detail for my particular setup. Your mileage may vary since the edge and lip of your ultrasonic cleaner may be different than mine, or your pipe clamps and angle brackets may be different, etc.
To get the adjustability to the turning resistance I needed, I added the spacer pointed out in the photo. It's just a flat piece of metal held in place by the same nut and bolt that holds the pipe clamp to the angle bracket. It keeps as much of the pipe as possible in contact with the pipe clamp and allows one to tighten the nut to provide exactly the resistance desired for arm movement.

An alternative would be to use the threaded elbow connecting the 1/2" pipe to the arm as the moving element, instead of allowing the 1/2" pipe to turn in the pipe clamps.

The pipe and elbow connections in my setup are tight and fairly rigid. But before tightening everything down, you have to make sure your overall geometry works out right, such that the LPs end up in the right place in the URC tank. Again, this might vary a bit based on the particular dimensions of the cleaner you're using, or the dimensions of the elbows and pipe you're using.

My motor mounting box gets slightly warm; definitely not hot.

BB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pipe-Clamp-Spacer-DSC_7366.jpg (93.7 KB, 677 views)
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Old 11th October 2012, 09:56 PM   #119
bbftx is online now bbftx  United States
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Addict,
Originally you also asked about how tight the elbow going into the motor box was. Maybe you already solved this problem, but if I remember correctly, this elbow had more threaded length than needed to fully engage the threads in the motor box. I cut off the extra length of the elbow threads so that the end of the elbow wouldn't hit the motor itself when fully tightened. The motor is thick enough such that it takes up almost all of the available depth of the motor box. You also need to make sure you include the gasket (and possibly an extra gasket) between the motor box cover and the motor box to get just a little more space for the motor.
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Old 12th October 2012, 01:06 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbftx View Post
Addict,
Originally you also asked about how tight the elbow going into the motor box was. Maybe you already solved this problem, but if I remember correctly, this elbow had more threaded length than needed to fully engage the threads in the motor box. I cut off the extra length of the elbow threads so that the end of the elbow wouldn't hit the motor itself when fully tightened. The motor is thick enough such that it takes up almost all of the available depth of the motor box. You also need to make sure you include the gasket (and possibly an extra gasket) between the motor box cover and the motor box to get just a little more space for the motor.
Yeah I cut the threads to tighten that part up and it is much better. I also put in a metal spacer and managed to tighten up the pipe clamps somewhat but still not as tight as I would like. Will look at a thicker spacer or perhaps different clamps.

Lots of tweaking to do now..... she sure ain't purty, but it is working!

Thanks again for the assist mate.
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