Does that mean grounding and solder joints will still be substandard? :0)
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I suppose that's what it means
As far as I can see it is just MkII with a different front panel. They also reconnected the centre earth point on the circuit board like in MkI?
And as a bonus added feature on mine they soldered one of the valve sockets under an slight angle!
When making the conversion to the third valve version will this third valve have as much of an effect on the final sound as the original two valves? Or with other words could I retain one of the original Chinese valves in the new position and upgrade the other two without degrading the sound of the new valves?
As far as I can see it is just MkII with a different front panel. They also reconnected the centre earth point on the circuit board like in MkI?
And as a bonus added feature on mine they soldered one of the valve sockets under an slight angle!
When making the conversion to the third valve version will this third valve have as much of an effect on the final sound as the original two valves? Or with other words could I retain one of the original Chinese valves in the new position and upgrade the other two without degrading the sound of the new valves?
ok, I have finally succumbed! been looking at hagerman and bottlehead kits, and have decided do do the "LES" but there is so much taken out of the YAQIN, I am thinking of doing the whole thing from scratch, in a larger enclosure with a toroidal transformer.
Now my problem is it has been 33 years since i have had a soldering iron in my hand and finished my electronic engineering course!
So i am planning to copy the les schematic entirely with close tolerance components, but has anyone got a schematic for a power supply using a toroidal that i could use for this?
I know it is cheeky , but i am so rusty on my electronics it would be great if there was a component list also. I am in the uk so 240 mains would be used for the input, I am not worried about LEDs on/off indicators
Thanks in advance
Lewis!
Now my problem is it has been 33 years since i have had a soldering iron in my hand and finished my electronic engineering course!
So i am planning to copy the les schematic entirely with close tolerance components, but has anyone got a schematic for a power supply using a toroidal that i could use for this?
I know it is cheeky , but i am so rusty on my electronics it would be great if there was a component list also. I am in the uk so 240 mains would be used for the input, I am not worried about LEDs on/off indicators
Thanks in advance
Lewis!
Not to worry now I have just ordered a tubes4hifi home page PH16 kit and will set up a new thread with the build
Hi Lewis, I have tried numerous times to get a posting up here but for some reason they all failed during preview so I had to re-write everything! Anyway, I noticed that you had at one stage thought of building the LES circuit and a PSU in different enclosures, certainly the way to go. Well I had hoped to post up some info on a new separates build based on my early work. I will try again but these drawings are CONCEPT drawings and I am still in the process of putting the first power supply together. To comply with health and safety here in the UK I have had to add a forced break safety relay amongst other things, something you do not have to add with an all-in-one construction like the one you have ordered. Anyway, the attachments may be of interest to you at some time, note that the power supply also uses back-to-back transformers for isolation.
All the best with the PH16, it looks a nice design but being a tube man I would rather not have a FET input stage but that's just personal taste.
All the best with the PH16, it looks a nice design but being a tube man I would rather not have a FET input stage but that's just personal taste.
Attachments
I read the reviews of the PH16 and it sounds great. Interestingly, I would describe the Les Box the same way. I suppose the advantage of the PH16 is the ability of changing the cartridge loading.
Les, I tried the Denon DL110 and went back to my AT120E. With a little tube rolling, it sounds better than ever. The AT120E sounded good, but it was a little bright in the upper midrange, but the tube rolling evened that out and now it is perfect. Depending on the recording, I can hear more of the room effects in the recordings and reverb/echo of even the quietest sounds of the background instrumentation. Very impressive! I don't think my tweeters are too bright like some are, in which case the Denon cartridge might work better with tweeters that are too bright.
BTW, I kept a winged =C= tube in the buffer position of the 22LB and replaced the other two with Mullard reissues. I replaced the Tung-Sol 12ax7 tubes, in the Yaqin 13S with the winged =C= and the 12au7 inverter tubes with, surprisingly to me, the Shuguang 12au7 stock tubes, replacing the Tung-Sols that I had there. I still have the winged =C= EL34 tubes as driver tubes. These are the tubes I had on hand. Sometimes this tube rolling doesn't make sense, but it is what it is, I suppose.
In any case, I love my Les box more and more every time I listen.
Les, I tried the Denon DL110 and went back to my AT120E. With a little tube rolling, it sounds better than ever. The AT120E sounded good, but it was a little bright in the upper midrange, but the tube rolling evened that out and now it is perfect. Depending on the recording, I can hear more of the room effects in the recordings and reverb/echo of even the quietest sounds of the background instrumentation. Very impressive! I don't think my tweeters are too bright like some are, in which case the Denon cartridge might work better with tweeters that are too bright.
BTW, I kept a winged =C= tube in the buffer position of the 22LB and replaced the other two with Mullard reissues. I replaced the Tung-Sol 12ax7 tubes, in the Yaqin 13S with the winged =C= and the 12au7 inverter tubes with, surprisingly to me, the Shuguang 12au7 stock tubes, replacing the Tung-Sols that I had there. I still have the winged =C= EL34 tubes as driver tubes. These are the tubes I had on hand. Sometimes this tube rolling doesn't make sense, but it is what it is, I suppose.
In any case, I love my Les box more and more every time I listen.
I am thinking of putting the PH16 in one of these High Quality Enclosures for Audio, DIY Hi-fi & Electrical projects
and drilling the top so the tubes are exposed, would that be enough ventilation with the side vents for the circuit?
and drilling the top so the tubes are exposed, would that be enough ventilation with the side vents for the circuit?
I suppose it's a matter of taste, but I would leave the tubes inside, they don't glow much, and putting a wire mesh above them for ventilation. That sure is a nice looking case.
Les, OMG!
The Denon DL110 cartridge finally broke in and it's amazing! It has buckets of detail and for lack of a better word, musicality. It's everything the other reviewers said it was.
I guess the best thing about it is that with the Audio Technica AT120E I would sit there analyzing the sound, with the Denon, I just enjoy the music.
Steve
The Denon DL110 cartridge finally broke in and it's amazing! It has buckets of detail and for lack of a better word, musicality. It's everything the other reviewers said it was.
I guess the best thing about it is that with the Audio Technica AT120E I would sit there analyzing the sound, with the Denon, I just enjoy the music.
Steve
Yep!, the MS22-LB is the heart of my system. I couldn't even think of using anything else. Thanks to you!
thanks for everyones help on here, especially Hi-Q for the diagrams, i may have a go at that next. i am building the tubes4hifi PH16 and have set up a thread here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/246524-building-vta-tubes4hifi-ph16-phono-stage.html
Still getting some good feedback from DIY peeps doing the conversion.
The latest :-
One word sums up what I am listening to , that word is WOW , that sounds so amazing , I always thought that the phono pre amp in my Arcam AVR 600 amp was good but it is not a patch on what I am hearing now from this Yaqin box of tricks , the transformation is simply superb , all credit of course goes to you for all the work you put in to redesigning the original circuit , the rest of the day and night are going to be spent listening to vinyl with a huge grin on my face , I've never heard my records sounding this good , you are a genius and I thank you so much for taking the time to help me complete this project . I bet you have made a lot of other people happy too who have also carried out the modification to their amps . Thanks so much Les
I can't find the blushing emoticon but yes, I feel good for helping another person get the best out of their MS22-B or should that be MS22-LB
BTW we did have a small problem with this conversion and that was "woofer Slap" for want of a better description. This was solved originally by taking the 22uF smoothers to 68uF. On this unit we had to go to 100uF so I am suggesting that this is done on any future conversions, just in case. The RS Components (UK) part number for the 100uF 350V cap is 715-2287, and is the same size as the 68uF so will fit just as easily.
The latest :-
One word sums up what I am listening to , that word is WOW , that sounds so amazing , I always thought that the phono pre amp in my Arcam AVR 600 amp was good but it is not a patch on what I am hearing now from this Yaqin box of tricks , the transformation is simply superb , all credit of course goes to you for all the work you put in to redesigning the original circuit , the rest of the day and night are going to be spent listening to vinyl with a huge grin on my face , I've never heard my records sounding this good , you are a genius and I thank you so much for taking the time to help me complete this project . I bet you have made a lot of other people happy too who have also carried out the modification to their amps . Thanks so much Les
I can't find the blushing emoticon but yes, I feel good for helping another person get the best out of their MS22-B or should that be MS22-LB
BTW we did have a small problem with this conversion and that was "woofer Slap" for want of a better description. This was solved originally by taking the 22uF smoothers to 68uF. On this unit we had to go to 100uF so I am suggesting that this is done on any future conversions, just in case. The RS Components (UK) part number for the 100uF 350V cap is 715-2287, and is the same size as the 68uF so will fit just as easily.
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After some retubing on my Yaqin 13S, the sound has gotten even better from the 22LB. The point being that the output from the 22LB was not fully realized. I would suspect that a person would have to use very good preamps and amps to consider the 22LB a bottleneck., and then I'm not sure that it would be the weak point.
I have to tell you that a vinyl playback system is extraordinary in what it can do. Everything we hear comes from a mechanical device (cartridge) and it seems that the electronics to amplify the signal is the bottleneck. At least that is what I have discovered by upgrading to the 22LB. I don't know if it can get better than the 22LB, but I will say that compared to what came before it, there is no comparison.
Less than a year ago I got back into vinyl and used an ART phono preamp with a digital amp. I thought it sounded very good. I suppose it did when compared to what's on the market within reasonable prices. I went with a EL34 tube amp (Yaqin), the Yaqin 22B converted to the 22LB, and some retubing and now my system is a completely different animal. I've heard some really good (and expensive) equipment and I have to say that the sound I get is close. I suppose that in a direct A/B comparison, the expensive stuff is better, but not by that much – In my opinion, at least not where it matters. The imaging and soundstaging is amazing.
Les, I don't think any amount of praise for your help would be too much.
I have to tell you that a vinyl playback system is extraordinary in what it can do. Everything we hear comes from a mechanical device (cartridge) and it seems that the electronics to amplify the signal is the bottleneck. At least that is what I have discovered by upgrading to the 22LB. I don't know if it can get better than the 22LB, but I will say that compared to what came before it, there is no comparison.
Less than a year ago I got back into vinyl and used an ART phono preamp with a digital amp. I thought it sounded very good. I suppose it did when compared to what's on the market within reasonable prices. I went with a EL34 tube amp (Yaqin), the Yaqin 22B converted to the 22LB, and some retubing and now my system is a completely different animal. I've heard some really good (and expensive) equipment and I have to say that the sound I get is close. I suppose that in a direct A/B comparison, the expensive stuff is better, but not by that much – In my opinion, at least not where it matters. The imaging and soundstaging is amazing.
Les, I don't think any amount of praise for your help would be too much.
Hi all. I registered not so long ago to be able to see the attachments. I'm registered in quite a few international forums all over the globe. I specialize in Chinese audio. This unavoidably includes modding. I'm not an electronics engineer unfortunately (call it a late calling) but I can make and read drawings. I don't understand everything but I'm learning as I go. Ive been doing this for a couple of years now (well, in fact I've been tinkering all my life) and my repertoire has grown from simple speakers, to turntables, to tubeamps, to dacs to phonoamps. I have also about 30Y of experience in high end audio and I know how to listen and what makes great audio.
So, about the MS22B. I've just modded my 2nd one. A gen2 model, my first was a gen1. I've been searching very long for possible mods all over in several languages. And at first I didn't find much, or rather silly things that don't really solve anything. Or really complicated exaustive solutions that really are in no proportion to the $200 selling price. My goal is to be able to sell it (semi-)commercially. That means less is more. Less work is more profit. And usually in audio: less electronics is more music. Yes I am a firm believer in minimalism. And, sorry to say, but I find the les mod is not more but to much (had to work in that pun).
So, I went to work on my own for the first one I did. I thought it can't be that difficult. So I got to it. The solution was far simpler than you think. The hum is caused by bad grounding and bad cable screening. I took out the extra ground wires on the gen1, bypassed the traces and soldered shielded milspec wired and soldered it as close to the tubes as possible. That means the input goes straight on the socket-pin. Problem solved.
Then I put in some better caps (Sprague VitQ 0.1 and 0.68), some Miniwatt ECC83's and you have a unit that can hold it's own against units far, far more expensive. I used it with a Koetsu Urushi on an MC-tranny and it totally shines.
I'm not going to post diagrams or detailed photo's. I don't want others to take credit for my work. I've seen that happen before. But I can tel you that there is a simpler way to do it than adding tubes and totally changing the layout.
So, about the MS22B. I've just modded my 2nd one. A gen2 model, my first was a gen1. I've been searching very long for possible mods all over in several languages. And at first I didn't find much, or rather silly things that don't really solve anything. Or really complicated exaustive solutions that really are in no proportion to the $200 selling price. My goal is to be able to sell it (semi-)commercially. That means less is more. Less work is more profit. And usually in audio: less electronics is more music. Yes I am a firm believer in minimalism. And, sorry to say, but I find the les mod is not more but to much (had to work in that pun
). So, I went to work on my own for the first one I did. I thought it can't be that difficult. So I got to it. The solution was far simpler than you think. The hum is caused by bad grounding and bad cable screening. I took out the extra ground wires on the gen1, bypassed the traces and soldered shielded milspec wired and soldered it as close to the tubes as possible. That means the input goes straight on the socket-pin. Problem solved.
Then I put in some better caps (Sprague VitQ 0.1 and 0.68), some Miniwatt ECC83's and you have a unit that can hold it's own against units far, far more expensive. I used it with a Koetsu Urushi on an MC-tranny and it totally shines.
I'm not going to post diagrams or detailed photo's. I don't want others to take credit for my work. I've seen that happen before. But I can tel you that there is a simpler way to do it than adding tubes and totally changing the layout.