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Old 21st April 2012, 09:43 AM   #1
mikemac is offline mikemac  Australia
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Default "Battery RIAA pre amp" by A.Sceptic

I just replaced my well regulated 27 volt supply to my JFET Pre Amp with 3 nine volt batteries, very clumsily daisy chained together. WOW!!!
My P/S was pretty good, like a battery on a scope but the
"real" battery set up is mad! It is only a humble JFET RIAA pre amp but it is SOOO quiet. I have A/B'ed the two modes, the battery thing is so much quieter and dynamic.. I suspect that a ground loop might have something to do with it. I am such a skeptic about small things (leads, valves, capacitors dipped in honey) that I am astounded that it sounds this good/different.
thought i would share, still astounded several hours later. Best 14 dollar upgrade this year
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Old 21st April 2012, 10:54 AM   #2
osscar is offline osscar  Latvia
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hi,
I also run my RIAAs with batteries (4.5V x 6 pcs large batteries) and I also noticed that it sounds better than a traditional PSU (maybe it's HF garbage on the electrical network)
Now i starting to make a power supply consisting of two solar panels (2x15V) and they will be illuminating bright LEDs. We'll see if I succeed with this PSU.
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Old 21st April 2012, 02:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac View Post
.... I have A/B'ed the two modes, the battery thing is so much quieter and dynamic.. I suspect that a ground loop might have something to do with it.....
I understand that the battery is quieter, but that it is more dynamic kind of surprises me.
Stacking batteries in series also makes the series resistance larger, and that might impair dynamics; at least that's what I pretty often read on forums.
Did you bypass the battery stack with a capacitance?
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Old 21st April 2012, 07:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac View Post
I suspect that a ground loop might have something to do with it.

No. Batteries just sound different to mains derived power. It has been known for so long that i'm stunned people continue rediscovering such obvious things.

In general analogue battery powered equipment does sound very fluid and exceedingly transparent. Bass is usually a bit lightweight but very nimble. Unless tha batteries have sufficiently high short circuit current, bass may actually be too light.

Types of batteries matter greatly. Lead based ones are not much to my liking and rechargables generally sound a bit worse than alkaline.

Finding good sounding bypass caps is not easy.

In some ways though, "battery" sound does have some negatives.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:20 AM   #5
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac View Post
I just replaced my well regulated 27 volt supply to my JFET Pre Amp with 3 nine volt batteries, very clumsily daisy chained together. WOW!!!
My P/S was pretty good, like a battery on a scope but the
"real" battery set up is mad! It is only a humble JFET RIAA pre amp but it is SOOO quiet. I have A/B'ed the two modes, the battery thing is so much quieter and dynamic.. I suspect that a ground loop might have something to do with it. I am such a skeptic about small things (leads, valves, capacitors dipped in honey) that I am astounded that it sounds this good/different.
thought i would share, still astounded several hours later. Best 14 dollar upgrade this year
Can I suggest that using SLAs in place of the 9v tranny batteries will make it sound even better. The reason - SLAs have a lower output impedance than alkaline batteries.

Regards,

Andy

Last edited by andyr; 22nd April 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:27 AM   #6
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post

Lead based ones are not much to my liking ...
I am interested to know why you say this? SLAs have, in my experience, been excellent sources of power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post

In some ways though, "battery" sound does have some negatives.
I would be interested to know what you think these are.

IME, some people have said battery-powered equipment lacks "drive/dynamics" - but I would suggest this is because:
a) they were using the wrong type of batteries, or
b) they had too low a DC rail voltage (and they didn't bother with DC rail electrolytics).

Regards,

Andy
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:32 AM   #7
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Originally Posted by osscar View Post
hi,

Now i starting to make a power supply consisting of two solar panels (2x15V) and they will be illuminating bright LEDs. We'll see if I succeed with this PSU.
I have been looking at how to make such a power supply so I am very interested to hear of your experience with this.

Do I understand you correctly:
* the solar panel can deliver 15v DC?
* what current delivery does it have?
* can you stack 2 together, to make 30v DC?
* how big are these panels?

Thanks,

Andy
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Old 25th April 2012, 05:39 AM   #8
mikemac is offline mikemac  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter t View Post
I understand that the battery is quieter, but that it is more dynamic kind of surprises me.
Stacking batteries in series also makes the series resistance larger, and that might impair dynamics; at least that's what I pretty often read on forums.
Did you bypass the battery stack with a capacitance?
No, i just poked three 9v batteries together. I have never aspired to rocket science I once played monks underground on 45 and marveled at the the amazing sound till i got to "in walked bud"and the kids pulled me up on it!
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Old 25th April 2012, 07:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyr View Post
I am interested to know why you say this? SLAs have, in my experience, been excellent sources of power.
I would be interested to know what you think these are.
IME, some people have said battery-powered equipment lacks "drive/dynamics" - but I would suggest this is because:
a) they were using the wrong type of batteries, or
b) they had too low a DC rail voltage (and they didn't bother with DC rail electrolytics).

Hi Andy

I have long term experiences living with batteries. Usually in mc head amps, both tube and solid state, occasionally in phono stages and on a single occasion in a power amp. And quite often as grid bias supplies for tubes.

It is probably meaningless to generalise about the sound of a particular battery technology without involving the specific batteries in use. It is my impression that similar to capacitors all batteries sound different.

To be honest i haven't used any for quite a while and it's probably time to experiment with one of LiFePO4 batteries.

What i don't like about the sound of batteries is probably the lack of substance or meat to the sound. And bypassing is not easy. Using a large electrolytic substantially removes some of the battery magic.

Have you read the "groundside electrons" thread? Not sure how much i subscribe to the concept but i've notice two things: i can easily hear if a single battery terminal is connected to the ground or if a single terminal of a grid choke is. It is my belief that at least some of what we hear from battery supplies is not simply the result of a specific noise spectrum or internal resistance.
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Old 25th April 2012, 08:40 AM   #10
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Thanks, analog_sa,

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post
Hi Andy

... and it's probably time to experiment with one of LiFePO4 batteries.
Yes, a mate of mine recently mentioned he was going to try them out on his JFET battery stage, too. However, I don't know what's "special" about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post

And bypassing is not easy. Using a large electrolytic substantially removes some of the battery magic.
That is an intriguing thought:
* what do you call a "large" electrolytic, in this situation? 470uF? 680uF? 2,200uF? 4,700uF?
* and why does it remove the battery "magic"? I thought it was advisable to have a bypass cap, even for a battery PS (although I can't quite understand why this should be so! ) ... and, shirley, all this does is provide a ready source of electrons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post

Have you read the "groundside electrons" thread?
Can you tell me where this is located (I looked for it on the next 4 pages of "Analogue Source" but couldn't find it)?

Thanks,

Andy
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