Facelift for a Dual 505-2 - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Analogue Source

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th April 2012, 07:07 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
No probs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2012, 07:15 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
I have been taking a look at vibration control, damping and dissipative systems, but most reference work assumes that the reader is related to Isaac Newton .

Can anyone answer the following questions for me:

1. Do vibrations (energy) travel more freely through objects that pose the least resistance?

2. What substance offers the most efficient transfer of vibrations into heat?

3. Many high-end (10,000+) turntables have high mass structures, why?
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2012, 09:09 PM   #13
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry365 View Post
I have been taking a look at vibration control, damping and dissipative
systems, but most reference work assumes that the reader is related
to Isaac Newton .

Can anyone answer the following questions for me:
Hi,

1. Do vibrations (energy) travel more freely through objects that pose the least resistance?

Hard to understand what you mean by this. Vibration / sound tends to
propogate freely through any solid or liquid but has a hard time with
"soft" materials with very low rigidity, such as open cell foam.

2. What substance offers the most efficient transfer of vibrations into heat?

Like the dampers in a car you need something with hysteresis, most
common are visco-elastic materials like sorbothane, bitumen and rubber.
Solid vinyl floor tiles are not bad and cheap. Other stuff used is duct-seal
(not common in the UK, not familiar with it) and modelling clay (plasticene)
though I think for the last damping is not that high as it might seem.

3. Many high-end (10,000+) turntables have high mass structures, why?

Well chucking money at a problem and making it appear very obvious
that you have means lots of very impressive looking engineering. There
is a school of thought that high mass is bad for turntables*, Pink Triangle
being a major exponent, and in their current incarnation make carbon
fibre / balsa wood laminate parts to modify Linn LP12's.

rgds, sreten.

* Of course there is also the opposite school, e.g. idler drives where it
seems direct coupling to a high mass plinth is de riguer for performance.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 16th April 2012 at 09:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2012, 11:23 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Thanks for the replies.

The more that I delve into the theory behind turntables - the more confused I become. I suppose a good place to start is looking at a turntable that has a well regarded pedigree, then ask why it works the way it does.

One area which has always baffled me is the plinth and its dramatic effect on the overall system. A few years back I built a turntable with a double plinth and initially isolated the two using sorbothane; the sound was dead. Then after removing the isolation the sound came alive.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2012, 01:24 AM   #15
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

I'm not bad at physics and have a set of "opinions" that seem to translate
effectively to the mods I've tried that work and some that sort of didn't.

I don't know anything about "expensive" turntables. I've fixed, serviced,
tweaked, modded and rebuilt quite a few "inexpensive" turntables to
the point I think i know what is worth doing and what isn't, as well
as knowing most of the pitfalls "improvements" can cause.

I don't want to seem arrogant, but its been one of my pet subjects
for years, I see a cheap turntable, it can be made better, effectively.

However, no wishful thinking will ever turn a basic turntable into a killer,
and IMO its not worth chucking all efforts possible at a basic turntable.

My interest is design, could they have done it a lot better, same cost.
In the same vein I know lots of "improvements" for turntables that
cost very little and are not technically/practically difficult to do.

A "hot hatch" version of the 505 can be more prosaic than you imagine.

rgds, sreten.

If you want a good turntable seek out a later Heybrook TT2 fitted
with a Rega RB300 arm. Price vs. performance is near the peak.
As is my (modded) Systemdek IIX and Rega RB250.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 17th April 2012 at 01:45 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2012, 11:01 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Well, I have owned Project, Linn, Ariston and AR turntables and have not been impressed. Also had Mission, Linn and Rega arms and I disliked the Rega's for being too clunky.

I am amazed at how much people will pay for either a piece of MDF or Perspex.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2012, 03:30 PM   #17
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hmmm ........

What has impressed you ? IMO the AR EB101 for the price you can find it
used is a great budget turntable and it quite easy and cheap to clean up
and improve somewhat. Its what I'd regard as entry level real hifi.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2012, 05:33 PM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hmmm ........

What has impressed you ? IMO the AR EB101 for the price you can find it
used is a great budget turntable and it quite easy and cheap to clean up
and improve somewhat. Its what I'd regard as entry level real hifi.

rgds, sreten.
The EB101 was a pig to set-up and level and after many hours it never sounded any different. Mind you, the Ariston RD-80 was the worst, like a sledgehammer - lacking finesse.

Perhaps I need to move up a level or two, but it does seem that companies like Clearaudio and Pro-Ject charge ridiculous amounts for Plastic and MDF.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2012, 09:57 PM   #19
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

The EB101 is probably fiddly for most people. I've never played with
one / tried modding one, same with the RD80. Hard to say what
needs doing without hands on experience. Same with the set-up,
you can go round in circles if somethings not quite right I've found.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2012, 11:28 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
Larry365's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Finally decided to put a Linn Lvx arm on the turntable which is now totally stripped down. A new armboard will be made to facilitate the correct mounting distance and then it will be fixed but isolated to the sprung plate. Cartridge - still undecided but nothing grand, either a brand new AT-110E or perhaps a Grado Silver.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dual 505-2 questions Uncertain Analogue Source 4 3rd February 2012 11:56 AM
repairing an old Dual 505 arm/headshell jives11 Analogue Source 1 8th February 2009 03:27 PM
WT: Dual 505-2 turntable headshell gaborbela Swap Meet 2 1st June 2008 06:19 AM
Dual 505-4 gchrist Analogue Source 1 30th April 2004 06:51 PM
Need advice on Dual 505-2 cartridge and preamp minaret Analogue Source 1 10th December 2003 10:15 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:09 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2