Is it very damp where you are, or do Monster use poor quality insulation?analog_sa said:
Some cartridges prefer highish capacitance e.g. Ortofon. Others don't. The resonance around the top of the audio band can sometimes be used to partly compensate for a mechanical HF loss.jgf said:
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I can totally dig that big brand names often make you pay more just for the label, and the colour of the sleeve. And I totally understand that cables need to be matched to the system. Likewise I can totally understand that the ideal solution would be to test drive a few cables.
I would however expect there to be sonic difference between a 2k cable and a 20GBP cable. If there isn't that's like saying that all cable reviews in magazines are pretty much a lie.
What I heard is that generally speaking silver allows for higher frequencies to be passed through more accurately, whilst copper is more suitable for lower frequencies. I can also understand that impurities in the cables result in breakdown of the signal (however minute those breakdowns may be). Likewise in theory you would want less crystals in your cable, to reduce the number of breaking surfaces (surface between crystals).
I also believe that a cable type should be matched to the type of music that is being played. Jazz tends to have a less varying range of frequencies than classical music. I.e. for classical music the ability to handle more frequencies well requires a more all round cable, whereas for jazz that could be more focussed on a frequency range.
All theory of course, and practise is what determines the end result.
Who knows, maybe that 20GBP Pro-ject cable does sound better than a 2k Nordost cable...
I would however expect there to be sonic difference between a 2k cable and a 20GBP cable. If there isn't that's like saying that all cable reviews in magazines are pretty much a lie.
What I heard is that generally speaking silver allows for higher frequencies to be passed through more accurately, whilst copper is more suitable for lower frequencies. I can also understand that impurities in the cables result in breakdown of the signal (however minute those breakdowns may be). Likewise in theory you would want less crystals in your cable, to reduce the number of breaking surfaces (surface between crystals).
I also believe that a cable type should be matched to the type of music that is being played. Jazz tends to have a less varying range of frequencies than classical music. I.e. for classical music the ability to handle more frequencies well requires a more all round cable, whereas for jazz that could be more focussed on a frequency range.
All theory of course, and practise is what determines the end result.
Who knows, maybe that 20GBP Pro-ject cable does sound better than a 2k Nordost cable...
You get it!
Note that coaxial cable which carries VHF and UHF signals is usually made of copper. Start doubting the sources that you hear things from.
No, I can't identify any theory in your piece. Lots of popular speculation, repeating what other people say. You may feel that you have been taken for a fool by the cable vendors and audio journalists. You could console yourself with the thought that nearly all the journalists and some of the cable vendors actually believe the stuff they write.ksporry said:
We really are saying what you fear we are saying!
Imagine you have a nice 2 pages review space in some Hi-Fi magazine. Now imagine I come to you with a big stack of cash. Now I show you the money and ask you to write a review for my new Ultra - premium Unobtanium made triple blessed interconnect cable which is of course offering an outstanding value for the quality at just €4'999/meter. Now you have two choices. To take my generous offer and accept the cash or make me go to your boss and give him the cash. You will write the review in my favor either way. You only need to chose whether you want to have few thousand euros more or less
Did you get the picture? Call it CAPITALISM Materials - silver, copper, gold whatever, even a wire of solder are ruler flat up to frequencies that you will never hear unless you are called Spok from the planet Vulcan.
If you use a good quality cables and your equipment is well designed, with buffered outputs providing low output impedance then you will not have any problems.
If you CAN hear a distinctive difference between cables, than it is your equipment to blame but not the cables.
As I said, they use a lowish Q electrical resonance to boost the HF. Less capacitance moves the resonance upwards so you get less HF - the peak moves above the audio range. It may get narrower and I suppose it might feed a little more ultrasonic noise into the preamp. A bit less HF might sound smoother.
I have an Ortofon VMS20E but I can't remember what extra capacitance I added in the preamp.
Yeah, I get they recommend higher capacitance to electrically tweak the high treble, I think it sounds better with less C. My Ortofons are OM20 and ProS cartridges. Yes, it does smooth out the highs. And that's good, on LP there's a lot of noise and distortion there. But it doesn't sound dull, but smoother and more extended.
The other good thing about the belden cables, is they're really well shielded, great for low level phono signal.
The Q of the resonance can be tweaked by adjusting loading R.
I should say I built the preamp, so I can tweak the loading easily.
I completely agree.
Paying silly money for cables is just HI Fi snobbery.
As you say the speakers, cartridges etc will make a much bigger difference.
I have a cable here you can have for £1,000,000 if you would like it.
Its more expensive but sounds 1,000,000 times better in my opinion.
Of course cables can be impure or resistive or capactive but not to a huge extent.
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Speculation IS theoretical...! A theory may be wrong, but its still a theory...
Ayway, i find the discussion quite interesting. As many people as many opinions i guess, but it does make things easier for me in some ways, i.e. i dont have to look for expensive cables to get a good sound from my system... However, I will need to look for something that is well manufactured, so i might go for some cheaper vdHul cables. I could go for some chinese stuff, they do make "fancy" cables here that arent too cheap, but i dont know any reputable chinese brands, other than the brand of my system (opera consonance).
If you CAN hear a distinctive difference between cables, than it is your equipment to blame but not the cables.
That's a load of bull. Cables have just as much right to be defective crap as any other gear.
You use the word 'theory' in quite a different way from me. To me, a theory is a reasonable and plausible explanation for something, and based on or consistent with an existing body of knowledge. It may be speculation (when first introduced), but not random stuff quite unconnected with existing knowledge or even clearly contradicted by existing facts.
If I say that the grass grows in my garden because little men under the ground are manufacturing it and pushing it up, then I don't think I can call that a theory. This is because it is known that there are not little men under the ground in my garden, and it is known (by botanists in detail, by the rest of us approximately) how grass grows (photosynthesis, cell division etc.). Many of the explanations put forward by cable fans are at the same level of sense as the 'little men theory' of grass.
If I say that the grass grows in my garden because little men under the ground are manufacturing it and pushing it up, then I don't think I can call that a theory. This is because it is known that there are not little men under the ground in my garden, and it is known (by botanists in detail, by the rest of us approximately) how grass grows (photosynthesis, cell division etc.). Many of the explanations put forward by cable fans are at the same level of sense as the 'little men theory' of grass.
Behold your subterranean little men: Nordost : Products : Odin Supreme Reference Interconnect.
And I guess these guys were also paid off: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/audio-cable-shootout-part-1-12-2000.html
Sorry... I think your full of it. There's no way cable manufacturers would still be in business if their so called speculations would not actually have some truth to it and actually affect sonic characteristics. I suggest you go buy a 2GBP set of audio connectors from Asda and stick it in your multi million pound hifi system. I;m sure it sounds just as good as those nordosts, no really it does!
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Reality belies your speculation.
I can give you a long list of products outside audio which accomplish exactly nothing yet enjoy good sales for years. There's always someone out there who is gullible enough to believe and truly WANTS to spend money for reasons having to do more with psychology than technology. In fact, I guarantee that each item on my list, no matter how ridiculous, will have vociferous defenders armed with pseudo-tech babble and anecdotes but exactly zero hard evidence.
How many years has Sylvia Browne successfully peddled her claimed ability to talk to the dead?
While there are consumers who believe that paying more means they get more there will always be suppliers who believe that charging more means they (i.e. the suppliers) can get more too.
Good quality appropriate cable from a reputable manufacturer is all you need for good sound. You can pay more for less if that makes you happy.
Good quality appropriate cable from a reputable manufacturer is all you need for good sound. You can pay more for less if that makes you happy.
Reality does not necessarily belie my speculation, or else that same reality belies yours as well. You see, I am not discounting your statement that some expensive cables do nothing. I perfectly believe that there are cables out there that do nothing better compared to cheaper variants on the same system. What I'm saying is that not all reviewers have been bribed. And that some expensive cables DO provide sonic improvement worth their money. There are plenty of reviews out there (including on this forum) that have not been bought by a cable company.
I DO believe that some cables are not worth the delta price in relation to their delta improvements.
However, I think reviews, especially group tests, are perfectly acceptable as a guideline. Of course I would not go for just the one review, I would check out other reviews too to ensure that that one review wasn't just a biased review.
But I do think that if there are 20 or 30 reviews that say one particular cable is good, then I don't automatically assume all 20-30 reviews are lies.
Well, if 25 people tell you that Sylvia Browne communicated with their dead relatives, that means she must have!
Well, as DF96 said, you are absolutely entitled to believe anything you want to believe. If the thoughts of educated and experienced guys like Dave (he's a physics PhD with long professional experience in RF, been building tube amps for many decades) who have nothing to sell in the audio business (including review articles) are meaningless to you, that's absolutely your choice.
Well, as DF96 said, you are absolutely entitled to believe anything you want to believe. If the thoughts of educated and experienced guys like Dave (he's a physics PhD with long professional experience in RF, been building tube amps for many decades) who have nothing to sell in the audio business (including review articles) are meaningless to you, that's absolutely your choice.
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