Rega Advice Please

[6L6]

I agree fully with limono when he says that the only person you need to listen to is you! Don't ever listen to anybody but yourself when it comes to this stuff.

My (own, somewhat humble) experience with Debut and Rega (Having sold both and being a Planar 25 owner) is that the Debut will usually sound less engaging and less musical than the comparable Rega. (My opinion.) Also, what makes the Regas sound so good is their modern tonearms. So in all honesty, an old Planar 3 with an RB200 is probably inferior to a new RP1. (Note how everybody was saying 'a recent P3' in the above posts.)

Also, my opinion only, take with a grain of salt - As much as their tables are wonderful, the Rega cartridges are horrible. I have never heard one that I truly liked, and I do own one. (Elys) Moving up in $$ in their cartridges just costs more money.

My opinion, between the 2 tables, the Debut III and the RP1 is to get the Rega. Because I am sure that it can take more cartridge in the future

Originally Posted by RaoulJuke

To be fair to the guy who gave me the advice mentioned above, he never implied anything about the quality differential between the carts. He only implied that the difference of sound i would hear between the Debut III & the P3 with the RB200 arm would be so miniscule, the only way i would hear it or get substantial improvement was if i purchased a amp or speakers that were a large grade up from the entry level.

Ah. That makes sense. I thought he was saying that you needed a really great system before you could hear any differences between TT/cart setups... My apologies.

[chrisb]

+1 on the comment re Rega cartridges - my 10yr old P3/RB250* is fitted with a AudioNote branded Goldring - great combination

*FWIW while the latest Rega arms may actually be vastly superior (and priced accordingly) - or just marketing, I'm of the opinion that among used models the RB250 is sonically superior to the more expensive RB300. In fact I had to special order these as two separate pieces to get that combination. Also note while arm wiring may have been upgraded since the late 90's, that the original stock wiring on older arms desperately needs upgrading, and that while Rega's may have revised their attitude of "if you buy our cartridges are perfect, why would you need VTA?" there are also easy to install kits for that as well.

[sbrads]

Having borrowed a Rega Planar 2 and on the strength of it then bought a RP3 back in about 1980, I can at least confirm that the RP3 is definitely better sounding and that was in the days when both carried the same arm. Not as good as a Linn Sondek, but way better than anything else at the price at that time.

As far as pondering the difference in sound quality between turntables, forget about descriptions of bass, midrange, treble, colouration; yes there are differences in these aspects but the overriding difference is in whether you can follow strands of music or not. That is, with rock music anyway, whether you can hear every note the bass player plays, the bass drum, every inflexion of vocals, guitar, piano etc etc. all separately and not interfering with each other so that if you want to you can follow whichever instrument you want without it being masked by others that may be louder. This is the province of turntables much more so than amplifiers and speakers.

A great thing about the RP3 I found, more so than any other I've heard, is it's wonderful ability to submerge ticks and pops on less than perfect vinyl, and yet the music comes through loud and clear and spacious. It can do 3D depth with a good recording, something the RP2 lacked. Downsides? Nothing at the price, apart from the lack of suspension which can cause problems with LF acoustic feedback if you just plonk it down anywhere. Find a good spot; i.e. not in between the speakers on a boomy sideboard. I used to have mine on a tiny solid shelf bolted to a brick wall well to the side of the speakers where there weren't any boomy room resonance nodes being excited.

[Jebem]

I have a Rega Planar 3 with a RB300 arm, and believe it or not, it is running a MC Lyra Lydian cartridge (500uV) costing more than the turntable did as new.
It is that good, believe me.
Of course the RB300 was rewired with Cardas (from Incognito Rega Arm Rewire kit), and the Motor was upgraded to the the latest Rega specification.

The only glitch with these UK style belt driven turntables is that they have a slow start, and the speed accuracy may suffer a little, but of course there are plenty of motor and power supply upgrades from 3rd party vendors in UK at least.

That is why many experts, even in UK, do small talk on how good a Technics SL1200 Direct Drive can be, when using a proper arm like an SME309. But here we are talking about a different league and much higher budget...
Here:
Technics SL1200 SL1210 -* SL-1210 SL1200* SP-25 SP25 SP-15 modifications

Cheers.

[Nanook]

... I'm always going to ad my 2¢ worth.

Of all the tables I viewed on the Aussie ePay site, I'd take the Sugden BD1 (I have one and love it). Make yourself an arm, buy a reasonable cartridge (as modest as an Ortofon OM 10) and enjoy it. It will provide lots of music for little money.

Else follow everybody's advice and save your pennies. The Garrot P77 I remember hearing was at Dave's place a few years ago on a Planar2/RB200 combo at Dave's (P10's) place. It sounded quite good. The pricing on some of the stuff on the Aussie site seems quite high. What's the domestic voltage, 220V 60Hz?

Do you have a turntable now? Or do your folks or friend (who isn't using it now)?

[RaoulJuke]

Well, Today i went to Todd's Hifi in Virginia to purchase a Debut III. Was like a little kid waiting for Santa.

They only had a store model left in the red, but assured me that they look after their floor stock so well it will be A1, and if anything i am better off as it has already been set up for me. I asked if this meant it could be discounted, and they said no because of this. When they went to pack it back into the carton he realized that it was missing the manual,and they also had no screws to secure the motor in transport. He assured me again that this wouldn't be an issue, as this was only essential or necessary when transporting via freight or courier.

I still purchased it and dropped it off home and went to work, didn't even have time to set my new toy up.

I just set it up and found that not only is it missing the manual and the screws for the motor, it was also missing the hinges and connections for the dust cover, and also missing the adapter for the different sized vinyls. Even still, i stayed positive knowing that these would be sorted out for me over time. I also was very disappointed as under the natural light of the my house ( their showroom is full of "mood lighting" ), several scuff and light scrathes started to show on the surface.

Connected it all up, put on "Pet Sounds" to crack the cherry on it..... and to say the least, i'm really disappointed. It's just all over the place, and i feel shattered. I am unsure if it is my sub par amp, or my sub par speakers - but i MUCH preferred the sound off the very average CDC ST 530. I just can't make any sense of it.

There is no warmth, no sense of timing or emotion, no consisteny in the instrumental mix and layering ( the lead guitar riff on the Smashing Pumpkins "Rocket", gets totally drowned out by everything else) - drums sound meek, the bass sounds soulless and flat, the vocals sound too loud compared to everything else & the songs seem to have lost their tempo and beat. i am struggling to find anything positive to say about it except for very slight glimpses of promise

I have 10 times more crackle and pop than ever. The opening track to the Beach Boys "Smile" - "Our Prayer" pops so much i had to check to see if no one was eating Rice bubbles close by. The sound is ALL OVER the place. The vocals sit too high and drown everything out,some instruments which floated beautifully over the melody are now hidden away in a muddy swamp of noise - it feels like the vinyl is playing at a speed that just shows no compassion to the songs, even with priceless tracks like Surf's Up. I don;t know if its just i have "cheap ears", or if I have a absolute dud of a player, as it was a show model. It also struck me later that the cart i got with the player has been sitting in that player for god knows how long, at the free mercy of customers and their snot-ragged children.

Both Pet Sounds & Smile are albums i know amazingly well. I flew to Australia and sat one row off front - dead centre - @ the world premier of the Smile album in London ( Paul McCartney sat about 8 rows behind me and co-writer Van Dyke Parks sat a few inbetween us) - I have listened to both albums millions of times on vinyl, cd, DVD (PS) and even on the dreaded Ipod. I understand each format will have different personalitys that will focus on different sounds and aspects of the recording - but this was a pure nightmare. Lots of underlying crackles, instruments almost impossible to hear - am i insane or something?

Going to call the store tomorrow and have a chat regarding it. As a minimum i am going to AT LEAST ask for them to take the show model back, and order me a brand spanking new one. It was a xmas present part from my wife, but she agreed i would be better off getting a new one since they charged me full price - even if i ended up getting it at easter instead. I think considering they didn't discount it as they claimed to look after it better than it would be sitting in a box and i received the item with no motor lock screws, no manual, no dust cover hinges or connectors, no Singles centre modifier, scuff marks affecting the polished finish & a cart that could have been sitting on it for a year being touched or damaged by the public - i don't think that is an unreasonable response considering

I am very tempted to just ask for a refund, and try my luck with something different, but i am not sure if i am being unreasonable or if they would even enteratin the thought.

Is the real problem not the player - but they way it is set up, my amp & speakers or possibly my untrained cheap ears? I have never owned a high quality sound product such as this before, but i consider myself to have a very keen ear. I can usually break down each instrument and layer of a song when hearing it live, on cd or headphones and an ipod.

What possibly could be wrong with it to be getting such appalling results??? The thing that most hurt is the absolute muddled mess the mix seemed to feel like - entire layers seem lost, while the lead vocals pelt out in a tinny assault - as the bass has not guts at all one second, and the next seems to be od'ing on itself with a threating intrusive vibration threatening to tear my speakers.

Some advice would be great to how i should handle this. I have already packed it back into the box as i was so emotional let down i just needed the moment to be over, and plugged my $20 CDC back in and listened to both albums again. As soon as i did, the crakles were gone and layers previously lost, jumped back out and danced around my living room.

What the hell should i do, and what the heck has gone so tragically wrong???

[RaoulJuke]

I know my previous post was quite long, just very very upset with the results of it compared to my old piece of junk. Also missing nearly every additional extra upset me too.

Would love to hear what people think might be wrong with it. I fail to believe it is the player to be honest. Surely it must be something specific to this one - be it the cart is damaged, not set properley or something.

I am pretty sure i am just going to request brand new replacement as i paid the price of a brand new player with no discounts. Which is fair. I am sure this player must definitely be better than the ST530 i had

[limono]

Welcome in audiophile hell Demo models are usually discounted (sometimes heavily) in US. That they sold you incomplete table in used condition is a sign of disrespect for the costumer and a bad service in times when retail of audioin stores is dwindling. I'd give them hell. Now ,generaly modern cartridges and styluses are more "resolving" and have more complicated shapes allowing them to ride deeper into records grooves which often (not always)results in more info but also more surface noise , especially if record was played many times with unknown quality player and was not cleaned. I would take the table back along with a few records you know so well and play them in the store.
The chances are that set up is wrong or you need to buy different cartridge , maybe older Shure, Stanton , ADC . They are not expensive and are great with rock music. Best of luck.

[6L6]

Originally Posted by RaoulJuke

and what the heck has gone so tragically wrong???

Um, uh, well... you bought the wrong brand from the wrong people.

[Nanook]

RaoulJuke: sorry you've had a bad expereince . As highly as the Project Debut have been reviewed (based on it being an "entry level" turntable), something must be horribly wrong. I know when I sold Revolver (which were made in the same factory that became Pro-ject), the arms had to be installed and if done incorrectly the tables obviously would sound bad.

If you paid AUD $499 for it, I'd ask (politely) for a refund (or if purchased on your credit card have them reverse the charge). Then I would seek out another local retailer (preferably a Rega dealer) and purchase Rega's plug and forget about RP1. It too can be upgraded to a very high standard at some later date but will give you a solid foundation to begin with.

The Australian distributor's webpage (Synergyaudio) allows you to input your postal code (4digits) into it's "dealer locator". So finding a Rega dealer should be easy enough, but Brisbane is pretty much a short drive away, isn't it? Here's one: living sound+vision. Click on the link to get their address and a phone number. They say over the phone service/advice is available. (I can't recommend them as I don't know anything about them, but they are in your neck-of-the-woods). $50 more for a TT from Rega vs the Project is a no-brainer (I know it's easy for me to spend your money, but that $50 can mean the difference between good and great service). They sell Pro-ject as well, so perhaps you can get better service, but the same turntable.

Hope that helps. Remember to thank the missus for the great gift.