good turntables for restoring? - Page 3

randytsuch · 7th December 2011, 11:38 PM

What about Empire tables?

I bought an Empire 208 a while ago, and used the guts to make a new table.

They are not as sought after as the more famous Garrards and Lencos, so I think you can find them for better prices.

Randy

ORNJ · 7th December 2011, 11:40 PM

is that a Dual 1214 that you are working on?

And I see what you mean in the Lab60....motor is practically 3" wide.

It makes me wonder how big the motor is in the Garrard 301/401 when people say that they are so massive and that one in the lab60 is by no means small for such an application.

I have a few people I know keeping an eye out for some old turntables for me and to let me know when they see garrard, lenco, and thorens. I am also now going to tell them to let me know when they see Dual 12xx and Miracord tables.

I know you didn't have Miracord in the "BIG" list that you had above but they look like they are built solidly and could still be fun to toy with.

Nanook · 8th December 2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randytsuch

What about Empire tables?

I bought an Empire 208 a while ago, and used the guts to make a new table.

They are not as sought after as the more famous Garrards and Lencos, so I think you can find them for better prices.

Randy

There was a reference Empire turntable made some time ago by Atmashere. They called it an "enhanced" Empire 208. There are certain tables that I have always coveted, and the Empires are in that group. Love to see some photos of it.

One thing that I am looking at doing is developing a belt drive to idler drive "conversion" kit. Take a Rega and do a conversion...or whatever belt drive table you have...

Kal Rubinson · 8th December 2011, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanook

One thing that I am looking at doing is developing a belt drive to idler drive "conversion" kit. Take a Rega and do a conversion...or whatever belt drive table you have...

That's funny. Way back when, we used to convert idler drive tables to belt drive.

phivates · 8th December 2011, 02:20 AM

Well there can only be ONE best way. This ain't art, it's SPORT.

cyclecamper · 8th December 2011, 02:31 AM

What's so good about idler? More side forces than a belt, as the belt forces can be balanced on opposed sides of the plinth. I guess it might be steady (low flutter) and not susceptible to belt stretch oscillation. But I still want a direct-drive that just keeps on running...

ORNJ · 8th December 2011, 03:25 AM

from what I gather from everything I have read it is the fact that idlers have better torque than belts and direct drives. Therefore, they dont suffer from the drag from the tonearm like other designs.

randytsuch · 8th December 2011, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanook

There was a reference Empire turntable made some time ago by Atmashere. They called it an "enhanced" Empire 208. There are certain tables that I have always coveted, and the Empires are in that group. Love to see some photos of it.

One thing that I am looking at doing is developing a belt drive to idler drive "conversion" kit. Take a Rega and do a conversion...or whatever belt drive table you have...

Here's an old pic of my "Empire". I made a corian plinth for it, so it doesn't look like an Empire anymore.

Randy

midfi · 8th December 2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclecamper

What's so good about idler? More side forces than a belt, as the belt forces can be balanced on opposed sides of the plinth. I guess it might be steady (low flutter) and not susceptible to belt stretch oscillation. But I still want a direct-drive that just keeps on running...

I don't know but I have 2 (a 1219 and a 1229) and I love the sound. I also have a belt (1246) and a DD (721) and I won't trade the 1219 for nothing in the world. I've had Pioneer's and Denon's which are both lovely machines but once The Sound Idea, the DUAL house here in S.A. redone my 1219 that was the end for me and it's my daily deck.

fasterbyelan · 8th December 2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclecamper

What's so good about idler? More side forces than a belt, as the belt forces can be balanced on opposed sides of the plinth. I guess it might be steady (low flutter) and not susceptible to belt stretch oscillation. But I still want a direct-drive that just keeps on running...

No side force on a Lenco - the idler make contact with the underside of the platter not the rim. May be that's one of the reasons Lencos sound better (he said only slightly biased

)

Karl

7th December 2011, 11:38 PM	#21
randytsuch diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: LA	What about Empire tables? I bought an Empire 208 a while ago, and used the guts to make a new table. They are not as sought after as the more famous Garrards and Lencos, so I think you can find them for better prices. Randy __________________ My system is here http://randytsuch-audio.blogspot.com/2005/10/my-system.html

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7th December 2011, 11:40 PM	#22
ORNJ diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: CA	is that a Dual 1214 that you are working on? And I see what you mean in the Lab60....motor is practically 3" wide. It makes me wonder how big the motor is in the Garrard 301/401 when people say that they are so massive and that one in the lab60 is by no means small for such an application. I have a few people I know keeping an eye out for some old turntables for me and to let me know when they see garrard, lenco, and thorens. I am also now going to tell them to let me know when they see Dual 12xx and Miracord tables. I know you didn't have Miracord in the "BIG" list that you had above but they look like they are built solidly and could still be fun to toy with.

8th December 2011, 02:20 AM	#25
phivates diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Willamette Valley	Well there can only be ONE best way. This ain't art, it's SPORT.

8th December 2011, 02:31 AM	#26
cyclecamper diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: was Chicago IL, now Long Beach CA	What's so good about idler? More side forces than a belt, as the belt forces can be balanced on opposed sides of the plinth. I guess it might be steady (low flutter) and not susceptible to belt stretch oscillation. But I still want a direct-drive that just keeps on running...

8th December 2011, 03:25 AM	#27
ORNJ diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: CA	from what I gather from everything I have read it is the fact that idlers have better torque than belts and direct drives. Therefore, they dont suffer from the drag from the tonearm like other designs.

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