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Old 1st January 2013, 02:36 PM   #51
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Would frankly be a lot cheaper, and for the price they are pretty hard to beat. I've found the Lundahl LL1931 and LL1941 to be substantially better, but at roughly 2.5X the cost that should come as no surprise.
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Old 1st January 2013, 02:40 PM   #52
SY is offline SY  United States
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How do they compare to similar units from Sowter or Jensen?
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Old 1st January 2013, 02:49 PM   #53
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Unfortunately I have no idea as I have no Sowters or Jensens on hand. My recollection of the Jensen stuff with a DL-103 is that the Cinemags were better, but that was a while ago and I don't remember what the Jensens were.

The LL1941 are the best I've heard in this system and that includes some well respected devices. (Mentioned earlier in the the thread.)
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Old 1st January 2013, 10:39 PM   #54
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How do they compare to similar units from Sowter or Jensen?
Quote:
Unfortunately I have no idea as I have no Sowters or Jensens on hand. My recollection of the Jensen stuff with a DL-103 is that the Cinemags were better, but that was a while ago and I don't remember what the Jensens were.

The LL1941 are the best I've heard in this system and that includes some well respected devices. (Mentioned earlier in the the thread.)
I don't know if this helps, but I've been listening to a pair of Sowter 1:10 trannies for the past several years. # 6495. I've used a few different MC cartridges in combination with it. Including DL103, DL103R, Shelter 501-II, Ortofon MC Jubilee.

Then, for one evening, an audio friend brought over his K&K Maxed-Out phono stage to try on my system. This was around 2007 or thereabouts. The Maxed-Out had MC inputs on the back panel like this one:
Click the image to open in full size.

And so we listened to his phono preamp on my system for a while, then changed back to mine, which was/is a Wright WPP100C and while using the Sowter SUT box that had been built by George Wright.


Then, much later, I tried some Beyer Dynamic trannies in a project box like this:
Click the image to open in full size.

I plan on trying a few other step up trannies in the near future, but in the context of this thread, and this is marginal, I suppose because it is not SPU related, it might be interesting to pose an observation. And that is that the behavior of the phono stage may have a strong determining factor on what SUT / MC cartridge sounds best to the ear.

Anecdotal. The Maxed-Out stage was tried on my Shelter and also an Ortofon Jubilee while in my system. And the Maxed-Out had Lundahl trannies in combination with a switch (with a resistor array) that allowed load adjusting. So we tried several different loadings with my Shelter. The interesting result was that there was minimal difference between them. Nothing radical. Just slight differences like upper frequency extension being marginally different between one setting and another. Or differences in Bass emphasis, or slight differences at the mids. But nothing that would would disqualify any particular setting, had you not heard the others.

However, when comparing the Maxed-Out to the Wright (with 1:10 turns ratio) there was an obvious difference. And this was at the mid-range. The Wright tended to present in a forward/aggressive manner while the Maxed-Out seemed rather laid-back and recessed in comparison.

At one point I almost wanted to say that the Maxed-Out displayed a mid-range suck-out. But this may not be fair since the Maxed-Out wasn't listened to by itself for a very long period.

Lately, I've been using the Beyer Dynamic trannies with the Wright/Shelter. The differences between it and the Sowter are minimal. Slight differences in upper frequency extension in favor of the Sowter. Slightly more low frequency energy, rhythm and drive, dynamics with the BD. Just marginally different. Tonal, timbre differences exist but are also marginal. I suspect the improved dynamic performance with the BD trannies is due to a higher turns-ratio/larger gain. (1:15 versus 1:10)

The one thing I haven't done is try any Lundahl step-up trannies in combination with the Wright.

But in general, I get the impression that what we are listening for are small differences rather than large......that is until you factor in different phono stages. Then the differences heard between stages might, or might not be larger.

-Steve

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Old 2nd January 2013, 01:14 AM   #55
SY is offline SY  United States
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Steve, thanks; since you changed two variables (transformers and pre), did you check the frequency response to see if there were any differences?
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Old 2nd January 2013, 01:38 AM   #56
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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All of my testing was performed using a single phono pre of my own design.. The new unit has only been used with Partridge 977 and the LL1941. No question the new design (the muscovite) outperforms the old D3A based design, from the standpoint of the transformers perhaps the most important thing is the huge reduction in miller capacitance in the input stage. The old input stage was a triode connected D3A (~300pF) and the new one is a cascode 6S3P-EV (<60pF).
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Old 2nd January 2013, 02:24 AM   #57
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Steve, thanks; since you changed two variables (transformers and pre), did you check the frequency response to see if there were any differences?
No measurements of any kind. Just listening. And the main differences heard had more to do with the two different Pre-amps.

-Steve
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Old 26th April 2013, 01:34 PM   #58
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The transformer that so far works the best has an input impedance of ~50 ohms, a primary dcr of 10 ohms, and a secondary impedance of 50K, dcr needs to be measured, but is probably in the vicinity of 1K. ratio is ~ 1:32 and I really do need the gain which is about 30dB. In theory a much lower primary and secondary dcr might slightly relax the gain requirement, but only by a few dB..
i don't get why you need 1:32 with a SPU with 0.3mV? wouldn't 1:10 be enough?

btw anyone tried HAUFE T-890 with SPU? sounds very good on paper, 40ohm input imp, 1:10, 35k secondary (needs resistors to match 47k), primary dcr 9 ohm, secondary dcr 900 ohm....


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Old 26th April 2013, 04:34 PM   #59
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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My LL1941s are wired for 16X these days.. which provides something on the order of 4.8mV from the Meister Silver GM II and 3.2mV from the GM E II.

It's a good compromise in terms of SNR, the dcr of the transformer secondary is probably the dominant noise source in the phono playback chain.

Note that you also commented on a very early post in the thread, good to read the later ones to see what changed. At the time I had a phono stage design with insufficient gain for the system architecture using an SUT with a lower step up ratio. A ratio of about 1:20 would have been ideal with the right transformer at that point in time. (The HA-100X sounded much better run with all windings connected.)
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Old 27th April 2013, 12:59 PM   #60
volken is offline volken  Netherlands
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Maybe interresting for some of you I made some frequence measurements on the Sennheiser TM003 and Haufe T890 stepup transformers !

Volken
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File Type: bmp MC transformer Haufe T890.bmp (104.1 KB, 55 views)
File Type: bmp MC Transformer Sennheiser TM003 freq..bmp (104.1 KB, 47 views)
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