Do you mean skipping or actual mis-tracking? The two are quite different, and mis-tracking generally becomes a larger problem as the velocity decreases towards the inner grooves and the wavelengths of high frequency material become short - approaching in some cases the size of the stylus contact area.. This is usually characterized by badly distorted and congested sounding high frequencies..
Sorry,I can't be more exact - I mean the sound is distorted as if the stylus needs cleaning. I call that mistracking but I'm probably woefully inaccurate.I would have expected things to get worse towards the inner part for just the reason you explain but things seem to be bad at the start, much better in the middle and not as good towards the centre. I'm sure I've got the cart properly set up.
Steve
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Sure, the forces dragging the arm towards center are greater the further away from center you get. Anti-skating devices help there but are always compromises. There's also a slight bulge on the outer edge of many records and the surface at the beginning can be slightly "downhill". The tonearm wires could be pulling is slightly at the outer edge, depending on how they're biased. All this stuff conspires to cause skipping if there's any groove damage or scratches near the edge. There's also an inertia effect. When the stylus touches down, it usually doesn't land directly in a groove. The arm then moves inward until the stylus "catches" a groove. Without adequate anti-skating forces, the arm may be moving faster than the spiral of the lead-in groove. Because the arm has mass and inertia, it can easily keep right on going and pop out of said groove, to hopefully grab the next one. Warps are usually worse near the outer edge, making everything else described even more of an issue.
Saw your last post- that sounds more like mistracking. Maybe the stylus really is dirty and needs a wet cleaning. Tar like deposits can build up and be near impossible to remove. Maybe the alignment isn't as good as you think. Go to my website and try the arc template generator- be sure to read the read-me file! Finally, maybe the stylus is damaged.
Saw your last post- that sounds more like mistracking. Maybe the stylus really is dirty and needs a wet cleaning. Tar like deposits can build up and be near impossible to remove. Maybe the alignment isn't as good as you think. Go to my website and try the arc template generator- be sure to read the read-me file! Finally, maybe the stylus is damaged.
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Thanks, I'll get your template. Please could you post a link to your website. The cart is a new AT 125 LC run in for about 8 hours. I wet clean it often since I'm using Cillit Bang to clean the records (you don't want to know - or perhaps you do- I've never found anything that removes surface noise and distortion like this but it seems to provoke a rage reaction in vinophiles).
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I've had some used LP's be so dirty that they fuzzed up the needle in one band, causing massive skating and skipping. If they look horrible I wash them before I play them, but sometimes I get fooled. This month I thought I had a cracked needle diamond, but the reading glasses proved it was just a big ball of fuzz. I have the Shure M97 with a brush, too.
There are occasionally LP's with the hole not punched in the middle. My only record of Buxtehude (bought new from Colombia @ Foley's) is mislocated on the back, wow, wow, wow. Have found a CD of that by Lionel Rogg, now if I just didn't have to spend last month's pension on a tooth, and this month's on a car engine - - -Life, it is too real. Still, occasionally LP's at the charity resale shop for $.50 turn out to be a lightly used bargain, but almost never artists on your top ten list.
There are occasionally LP's with the hole not punched in the middle. My only record of Buxtehude (bought new from Colombia @ Foley's) is mislocated on the back, wow, wow, wow. Have found a CD of that by Lionel Rogg, now if I just didn't have to spend last month's pension on a tooth, and this month's on a car engine - - -Life, it is too real. Still, occasionally LP's at the charity resale shop for $.50 turn out to be a lightly used bargain, but almost never artists on your top ten list.
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Pretty good test of how well matched your cartridge compliance is to the effective mass of the arm.. Pretty interesting watching a badly under damped response in a mechanical system.. Taken to an extreme the stylus will actually leave the grooves at times, what an interesting sound that makes..
One of the other possibilities where distortion is very high on the first couple of cuts is if the recording was played with a badly worn stylus - the wear will probably be worst where the angular velocity is highest. I do have a few records that exhibit this trait.. It could also be a teen who liked a particular song and played it repeatedly in succession (not a few times, but dozens of times..)
No-one will like this. What I do is flood a little de-ionised water onto the record followed by 5 ml of Cillit Bang. Then I use a soft paintbrush to stir the mix counterclockwise over the record surface. Work up a good froth then rinse with de-ionised water, blot dry with paper towels then polish (anti clockwise) with a clean microfibre cloth. The first time you play after this you will need to clean the stylus every 5 mins. After that never again. Interestingly I used this on some disks which had been treated with 'revirgiinator' and a huge sausage of white PVA peeled off the groove.
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I guess some of us in North America haven't a clue as to what Cillit Bang might be...
I looked it up on Wikipedia, I guess that company sells something called Easy Off Bam here in the USA, funny I have never heard of it..
Edit: Given that this cleaner is described by Fran as "harsh" I would be concerned that this stuff could damage the suspension, cantilever and adhesive used to mount the stylus. MC type cartridges might be most susceptible. (Going forward I will not play wet records, just got a new SPU..)
It is a harsh cleaning agent but might be very useful for the dirtiest lps. I would be concerned about the residue you are obviously getting. A wet vacuum cleaner would be just the ticket there I think.
But back on topic. It's not dirt causing your mistracking (if the stylus was dirty the problem would be there all across the sutface) , so that only leaves alignment or antiskate. Check and check again with a good accurate gauge..... Personal experience would point at alignment unless you've used something like a feickert gauge.
Fran
But back on topic. It's not dirt causing your mistracking (if the stylus was dirty the problem would be there all across the sutface) , so that only leaves alignment or antiskate. Check and check again with a good accurate gauge..... Personal experience would point at alignment unless you've used something like a feickert gauge.
Fran
I had understood the OP to say this was a problem on used records only.. I've run into the same thing on a very small subset of the recordings I've purchased, and usually just finding another copy does the job. One instance where thousands of copies were pressed with severe over-modulation of the cutter being the exception and on one side only, and its an RCA LSC Shaded Dog.. I never found a copy that was good!
Thanks, I printed out the template. The stylus is spot on the arc but the cartridge body is miles off parallel. Like a fool I'd assumed if both mounting screws were the same distance along the headshell slot all would be well.
Now a long iterative nause to sort it out.
I never get the stupidly named Cillit Bang anywhare near the cartridge but I'm grateful for the expressed concern. After cleaning I play with a Stanton V3 (a surprisingly good cart) What gathers on the diamond is lint (under a microscope it is short mixed fibres) unless the record has been revirginised in which case it looks like PVA.
After one playing the surface noise has gone and the stylus doesn't need cleaning. I promise the modulation hasn't dissolved as well!
The deck's an SL1210 with standard arm and the specs say the tracking error is
Within 2° 32' (at the outer groove of 12" record)
Within 0° 32' (at the inner groove of 12" record)
is that enough to be audible? I'm afraid I don't yet have either a test record or even a new one. I'm just getting back into vinyl and wanted to ease in gently.
Steve
In my experience it's usually two!
Thanks for your help. We share similar interests - I'm lucky to have one of these to play with
Haas Automation Inc. - CNC - EC-300 - Details - HMC_EC
Steve
One thing to consider with used records is you don,t Know who or how they were used. Someone might have used a worn out diamond or used too light of tracking force thinking this will save his precious vinyl- it does the opposite
Or someone could combine all this with improper alignment and you have a perfect vinyl storm disaster
Then, no amount of cleaning is going to save them
Regards
David
Or someone could combine all this with improper alignment and you have a perfect vinyl storm disaster
Then, no amount of cleaning is going to save them
Regards
David
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