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Old 24th June 2011, 04:40 PM   #71
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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It appears to me the Lenco has the idler wheel vertical causing more rumble as for the idler wheels who work horizontal. Maybe i prejudice.

Nanook what arm did you construct.
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Old 24th June 2011, 04:56 PM   #72
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth View Post
It appears to me the Lenco has the idler wheel vertical causing more rumble as for the idler wheels who work horizontal. Maybe i prejudice.

Nanook what arm did you construct.
Some models are capable of really excellent rumble performance despite the vertical idler wheel. Check out that forum if curious.
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Old 24th June 2011, 05:58 PM   #73
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default of Lencos and tonearms...

The Lenco turntables have a cult following, much the same as the Thorens and Garrards.

in either case there will be some "noise" added due to an idler (and this is theoretical of course). The larger the idler wheel, the fewer RPM required of it to transfer the motor/spindle speed to the platter.

Most idlers use a bushing rather than a proper bearing. Bearings have less drag, but if sloppy can add noise.

I think if one looks at any idler wheel design, there are pluses and minuses to each. The verticle idler wheel may have an advantage, as it can be fine tuned to a specific location on a different platter if using one which has a flat bottom. Thus the oportunity to make a custom table (including a platter made of your choice of materials) may be easier to realize. Also the horizontal orientation of the motor may allow for easier fitment in a more compact plinth.

There are proponents of all:
  • Garrard
  • Thorens (which are a "hybrid as a belt is used to rotate an intermediate wheel)
  • Lenco
  • McCurdy
  • EMT
  • and too many others to list

The arm have mounted is my "kit" arm, which I have been trying to get out to folks for at least the last 6 mos. Wow, does time fly (right kevin?)!

The turntable isn't even anchored to the "plinth". Now that I know that this table has a ton of potential, I will take the time to construct a proper one from scratch, and reinforce the metal top plate , as well as fill all the little holes in it, and sand and refinish it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fugly Dual_small.jpg (117.8 KB, 165 views)
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Last edited by Nanook; 24th June 2011 at 06:04 PM. Reason: added comments
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Old 24th June 2011, 07:11 PM   #74
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post

The arm have mounted is my "kit" arm, which I have been trying to get out to folks for at least the last 6 mos. Wow, does time fly (right kevin?)!

The turntable isn't even anchored to the "plinth". Now that I know that this table has a ton of potential, I will take the time to construct a proper one from scratch, and reinforce the metal top plate , as well as fill all the little holes in it, and sand and refinish it.
Stew I think this is the real DIY buy a low cost daul cs1200 series and build your own arm.
It would be good to put a well documented build of this turn table for youngsters as adults with little money to build real high end for scratch with your own hands.

At mine I had made a 8mm ax to lengten the pitch control and also the same for the speed control. It made a cool appearance.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by Helmuth; 24th June 2011 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 25th June 2011, 03:41 AM   #75
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default well documented build

Helmuth,

Your build looks very good and I must say shows your skill and esthetic preferences, which seem to mirror mine.

A well documented build was/is the idea. I had planned on writing it up for HiFiZine.com but have since resigned my position with them (5+ years writing for Affordable$$Audio prior to their merger). I haven't decided to create my owm blog (or ezine) or see what other ezine writing opportunities exist.

I am still going to document the build and do an interview with Jean on his ideas and concepts regarding idler wheel turntables. It had always been his contention that one need not start with a Lenco or Thorens or Garrard "big dogs". There are lots of changers that could be easily modified to single play manual turntables that cost very little.

What you see in my attached picture two posts back is absolutely crude, but sounds great. Once I decide on the design of a plinth, I'll get constructing and further listening.If the initial lstening sessions arre any indication I may have an Oracle for sale.

Besides the Dual 1214, I have a Garrard Lab 80 (without idler or platter but everything else is there), and a VM, as well as a Phillips idler in nice compact console stereo from 1961, but I'd like to leave the Phillips intact if possible.
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Last edited by Nanook; 25th June 2011 at 03:42 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 7th July 2011, 07:31 AM   #76
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Helmut, and what did you do with DUAL platter? I see it differs from the original. I'm experimenting now with very similar DUAL deck, and it handles easyly both double and triple heavier platter, with no signs of drag. I will stop with 5kg weight.
DUAL idler runs surprisingly well, with no noise or rumble. At least it is lower than record floor noise...
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Old 7th July 2011, 02:06 PM   #77
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterwalter View Post
Helmut, and what did you do with DUAL platter? I see it differs from the original. I'm experimenting now with very similar DUAL deck, and it handles easyly both double and triple heavier platter, with no signs of drag. I will stop with 5kg weight.
DUAL idler runs surprisingly well, with no noise or rumble. At least it is lower than record floor noise...
The metal frame was build in a heavy mdf plint. On top of that a 22mm mdf plate the platter disappears in the 22mm. Than I made a multilayer platter of felt rubber trespa mdf. To do this you need a extra long axle in the middle of the platter.
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Old 7th July 2011, 05:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth View Post
The metal frame was build in a heavy mdf plint. On top of that a 22mm mdf plate the platter disappears in the 22mm. Than I made a multilayer platter of felt rubber trespa mdf. To do this you need a extra long axle in the middle of the platter.
A-haa, now I understand why it looks the way it is. As for me, I've placed additional cast and machined 2,6 kg platter on the top of Dual own one , so together they are 5 kg, and also ordered extended spindle. Of course, the arm and the plinth will be replaced with something more decent.
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Old 9th July 2011, 08:37 PM   #79
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default er...my lack of skill

Helmuth,

Your build looks very good and I must say shows your skill and esthetic preferences, which seem to mirror mine.

When I re-read this, it suggests I have your skill (which I don't). Sorry if it seemed rude, that was not the intention.

Personally, I like the Dual top plate. Does anybody know what finish (paint) was used on them. It has a very "soft" tactile feel which I quite like.
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Old 10th July 2011, 08:30 AM   #80
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Personally, I like the Dual top plate. Does anybody know what finish (paint) was used on them. It has a very "soft" tactile feel which I quite like.[/QUOTE]
As to DUAL paint, apart from aesthetics, it also has remarkable damping property. Even chipper models with iron stamped platter, that is covered with that paint, are not ringing at all. I think that paint is a reason, why DUAL idler runs so surprisingly quiet.
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