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Old 28th May 2011, 04:49 PM   #111
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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I also remember reading that Melodiya bought equiptment from DGG in 1956. Eterna had a co-operation agreement with DGG so one would have expected them to use the same standard as the western company except when they pressed directly from Russian masters. As far as Prague and Budapest are concerned, in both cases the factories were former HMV outfits and it does not seem unlikely that,at least until 1968, there was continued co-operation between Supraphon and HMV; certainly HMV issued Supraphon recordings on their "Music for pleasure" label although the matrices are always HMV.
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Old 28th May 2011, 06:22 PM   #112
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As the writer at hifimuseum.de states, he suspects that other stated curves were changed to the RIAA-standard, without any official announcements, during the 60s. Seems there was a bit of pride involved - the Germans even launched their own standard in the late 50s, for all we know, they may have hung on to it, as local playback equipment would be able to handle it.

But there are some significant differences between RIAA and CCIR 56, and as the former Eastern block hung on to CCIR 56 for a long time, having a switchable phono-stage is a nice way of getting records from that region to play very well.

For those wanting more info on the nuances, here's how NAB and CCIR influenced tape recording and playback.
Deutsche Welle: Radio Training Centre
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Old 28th May 2011, 09:00 PM   #113
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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I included many EQ's on my phono amp but neglected to include CCIR; I'll try to fit one next week and report back. Has anyone else here apart from Thorsten L. done much with variable turnover and rolloff?
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Old 29th May 2011, 02:54 AM   #114
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
There is only ONE RIAA curve and all LP's should confirm to this. I think Thorsten's comments were really more around how individual (recording) engineers fiddle with the qualization in terms of boosting bass or treble for example.

The original curve was publisjed in 1964, and there was a second major amendment in 1976 which added the 20Hz breakpoint to counteract the arm resonances and disc warp.
Methinks you've already contradicted yourself, Bonsai? Either there is only one RIAA curve (the original) or there is the 1976 version?

AIUI, there is only 1 RIAA curve - the original - but some phono stage mfrs choose to implement the 20Hz breakpoint, to help with vinyl reproduction (as distinct from cutting).

Then there is also the 50KHz breakpoint which the late, great Allen Wright discovered in the mid 80s(?), when he found that cutting engineers were already doing this (to stop their lathe amplifiers burning out). Again, some phono stage mfrs implement this - others don't.

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Andy
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Old 29th May 2011, 06:39 PM   #115
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
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Does anyone know if the Eurodisc re-issues of Melodiya recordings were cut using the RIAA standard? They seem to have better tonal balance than the originals, as well as overall better quality.

John
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Old 29th May 2011, 07:54 PM   #116
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Hi,

First, I do not care to debate the reality or not of different EQ's, it is easily observed using the method cited by Peter Copeland in his writings and whixh I personally hit upon independently using a digital EQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsem View Post
Does anyone know if the Eurodisc re-issues of Melodiya recordings were cut using the RIAA standard? They seem to have better tonal balance than the originals, as well as overall better quality.
To be clear, the EQ of any given LP depends on who cut it. And sometimes even if the people who cut it observed instructions as to which EQ to use.

So, if Eurodisk (aka Ariola) cut their own lacquers from soviet master tapes (a likely scenario) they would likely be RIAA, but if they used soviet stampers to press their own they copies (unlikely, given the state of industry in the eastern block at the time) they would be CCIR.

Similar stuff for Supraphone originals vs. EMI/MFP, though EMI appears to have at the times used different EQ's (maybe subcontracted cutting to a Decca facility?).

So the key is not "who recorded it" or "who's stamp is on the sleeve" (both of which are easily figured out), but "who cut it", which is commonly extremely hard to figure out, if at all.

Ciao T
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Old 29th May 2011, 07:57 PM   #117
dimitri is offline dimitri  United States
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Quote:
Eastern European use of CCIR is interesting, as it explains why many find the records from the 60s/70s/80s to sound "megaphonic" - well, I have tried playback with the correct curve, and it's a revelation. Guess I shouldn't write as much, as these are often fantastic recordings, just not through RIAA, and they are very cheap to buy still.
Quote:
That would explain the "dark" sound of Melodiya records.
Quote:
However, right up to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, many Eastern European recording labels (including Russian recording labels) were still using the CCIR equalisation.
You guys can use any time constants you want but GOST 7893-79 (standard of xUSSR) followed IEC 3180-318-75us and 7950-3180-318-75us
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Old 29th May 2011, 08:07 PM   #118
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by dimitri View Post
You guys can use any time constants you want but GOST 7893-79 (standard of xUSSR) followed IEC 3180-318-75us and 7950-3180-318-75us
If my reading of the standard is correct, it is the officially 1979 promulgation of the standard, what where the earlier ones and when was the 1979 standard actually fully implemented, as opposed to put on paper? By the end of the following 5-Year plan?

Ciao T
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Old 29th May 2011, 08:31 PM   #119
dimitri is offline dimitri  United States
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At least from 1960 RIAA time constants were used in USSR, don't read wikipedia. Here is Melodia measurement record, you can calculate time constants from Table 2 frequency response.
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Old 29th May 2011, 10:11 PM   #120
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
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Thanks, Dimitri.
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