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Old 20th December 2010, 11:28 AM   #1
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Default Make a horizontal turntable vertical

Hi all,

This is my first participation on this forum !
I have a project that will probably sound crazy to some of you... I am not really well versed in the audio mechanics yet, but I would like to turn an horizontal turntable into a vertical one, that I could fix to a wall.
I know about the Mitsubishi LT-5V but don't really like it's design, and fancy the challenge of making it from my own hands...

I've found a Beogram 5005 (with a belt-drive tangential arm) pretty cheap in a fair. It's working perfectly horizontally. Having a tangential arm seems pretty necessary if I want to turn it vertical anyway.

So I feel pretty comfortable to implement the mechanism so that the vinyl sticks to the platine, centered on the axis and turns smoothly. What I not too sure yet about is will the platine's inside mechanism work if I turn it vertical ?

Any ideas ?
Thanks a lot for your answers...
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Old 20th December 2010, 03:40 PM   #2
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Tangential arm isn't required for vertical use but spring applied tracking force relative to the deck plate is. The old Dual and Thorens turntables from the '70s worked this way and could play vertically out of the box BUT and this IS important - the platter bearings are designed for a horizontal platter so whatever you end up with will need significant engineering and fabrication to make it work vertically. Forget automatics, it's going to be manual only unless you're very determined and clever.

G
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Old 20th December 2010, 04:57 PM   #3
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Hi Stratus,

Thanks a lot for your answer !

Really interesting... I don't quite see a radial arm having a string applied force, and as they all seem weighted to me, I thought installing them vertically would induce some undesired forces as the arm goes its way... Hence the tangential choice. But although I like to fiddle, I don't have much experience with turntables...

Could you please give me some references of Dual or Thorens turntables like the ones you're mentioning ? Do you think something like a TD 160 for instance would work vertically out of the box ? If so, I'll take care of the rest.

Thanks again !
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Old 20th December 2010, 05:25 PM   #4
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Using a TT designed for horizontal playback for use as a vertical TT will present several problems - the bearings being one - anti-skating correction being another. Some of the TT's that used linear tracking arms could do both and are available from time to time on flea-bay etc. Most were regarded as mid-fi tables at best due primarily with difficulties in keeping the tone arm alignment within spec as the units aged - they could be very temperamental.

If you are attempting to save some space or reduce the effect of "foot fall" disturbance of your TT I suggest that you consider the use of a wall shelf designed for TT use - such as the one listed below.

Target - VW1 Wall Mount Turntable Shelf-Audio Advisor

BTW - Welcome to diyAudio!!!!
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Old 20th December 2010, 06:21 PM   #5
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The tension on the Thorens IIRC a linear spring. I know with certainty the Dual used a spring similar to that in a clock
File:Alarm Clock Balance Wheel.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The arm is balanced with zero force on the spring and then the spring is tightened to add the force. The center of gravity remains centered in the pivots which allows any plane of operation and makes the turntable resistant to skipping if moved / bounced. Anti skate is also not an issue (if spring applied) as the CG of the arm is centered in the pivots. I always thought a calibrated imbalance on the arm was a lazy engineers cheap way out. You want it balanced!

G
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Old 20th December 2010, 08:17 PM   #6
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In 1966 (or so) I worked as a tech for the local Dual reps. During a trade fair we had the new 1009 run vertically for 2 weeks, 12 hours a day. No idea what happened to the bearings or what music was played! E
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Old 20th December 2010, 09:37 PM   #7
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

The main issue is the suspension, which simply won't cope, an arm may
or may not depending on dynamic balance, and the main bearing will
work at least for a bit, basically its not a good idea and a TD160
or any other subchassis turntable would be utterly hopeless.

Its not a good idea unless you know exactly what you are doing.

I think some technics linear trackers can be wall mounted, recommended.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 10:21 AM   #8
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Why do this, when you can find a cheap LT and tune the hell out of it?
The LT-5V was a very clever design but with production costs in mind.
See my thread on this forum for the making of my ultra LT-5V:
My last turntable!
There are many pointers there of how to overcome all original problems...
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Old 22nd December 2010, 06:50 PM   #9
AVWERK is offline AVWERK  United States
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If you put your hand on the wall and play at realistic levels you will feel way to much "sounding board drumming" . The huge surface area and the air space behind are just magnifying issues you don,t need. Put your hand on a solid turntable stand and these problems are almost non issues, except of course a 2nd story footfall problem. In that case, this might be the only solution I guess.

Regards
David
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Old 22nd December 2010, 08:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVWERK View Post
If you put your hand on the wall and play at realistic levels you will feel way to much "sounding board drumming" . The huge surface area and the air space behind are just magnifying issues you don,t need.
Depends on your home's construction!
(Pretty much all houses built in this country have brick or concrete walls, which make excellent mounting surfaces for turntables and loudspeakes)
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