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Old 2nd December 2010, 05:57 PM   #21
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandersen View Post
Depends on your view of CD vs LP. See the the thread How better is a Turntable compared to a CD?.
When I got the Idea for turntable on my mind, I came in that section and began reading exactly that thread...

And when I read this: Dynamic Comparison of LPs vs CDs - Part 4 — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I got totally convinced...

The reason for my searching is in first place that I am not satisfied by CD's anymore... and maybe I have never been satisfied...

About 6 months ago I found a tape record on audio cassette in my office... It's at least 15 year old record of Julio Iglesias listened many times The only place where I have cassette player left is in a car... and it sounded and sounds great, so natural, with such real and detailed high range...

Before that I have made a research for satisfying my own curiosity about the different formats... I even questioned a friend of mine who is sound engineer about 96/24 and 192/24 formats, about professional 8 track tape recorders and etc...
I even put my nose a little in the national golden fund of records of the national radio here...
And 16 bit 44.1 khz is something very retarded and disabled when compared to 8 track tapes and good vinyls.

And I asked my self if it is worth to put years of reading, DIY-ing, thinking and lots of money into equipment only to listen to a retarded and initially inept format such as the CD!
I don't want those lousy sounds anymore! From 1000 CD's 100 are good to listen, 50 are really good and 10 are exellent and I buy original records preferably from older issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinahcc20 View Post
I think the prospect of the vinyl playback "beating" your digital source depends on the whole system (turntable, tonearm, cartridge, MC stepup (assuming you go MC) and RIAA preamp. Of those elements my experience is that the cartridge and signal conditioning play the stronger role assuming your turntable and arm are reasonably competent and the arm is compatible with the cartridge. I would expect the SL-1200 to satisfy the reasonably competent standard for the turntable and tonearm. I would take your cartidge budget and invest it in one good cartridge rather than two. In the end my experience is that vinyl can outdo digital, but the source material and your personal tolerance for vinyl's surface noise can override the equipment choices.
Thanks for that! Will the C-85 do it as a preamp for beginning or I should buy a special phono preamp? Again if such is available at reasonable price from a major company (with comparable and clear parameters and etc...) I would go for it.


And I have about 6 listening hours to mediocre turntables such as 150$ second hand Onkyo and 25 year old Unitra which costed 150DM as new and the records were old and used... and it sounded better than a mediocre CD, natural and pleasant.

Which cartridges are compatible with the 1200? Probably I have to check the min-max adjustable height and the weight tolerances as well? Or better which 200$ MM cartridge is good? Should I insist on Audiotechnica? - because their parameters are very good - channel balance is very good...

And I have yet another consideration - I have the CDX-993 and it's price was about 600-800-900$ depending on the market (here we have 10% import duty and 20% VAT), it is produced by Yamaha - a major and renowned electronics company... and the Technics is about the same price, little higher which is normal at least regarding that now nearly 10 years have passed form the 993 discontinuing... and it is again a major brand from a major company - Mitsubishi... - Equal quality equipment from equal companies at equal prices - pretty fair

Last edited by T101; 2nd December 2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 06:19 PM   #22
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If you want to go on the cheaper side you could try scouting the auctions... I frequent them in Toronto and regularly see 1200's for about $200 or less. But they usually need new cartridges I don't know if you have auction houses where you live ,but its worth a try.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 06:26 PM   #23
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T101
If you like technics then get it. Technics might be finally stopping production of these.
So get one while you can.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 07:42 PM   #24
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I don't have any experience with your C-85, so I would first get a good cartridge & listen to it on your current gear to see how well it sounds. I haven't used an Audio Technica cartridge (my history is Shure V15III, Dynavector 10x3, Dynavector Ruby Karat and currently Denon DL103R...the Denon is very smooth and natural) so I can't help there. If you go low output MC you will likely need a step-up amp or transformer. Once you get the system together do a lot of listening & decide if it's good enough...if not figure out where your money is best spent on upgrades.
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Old 5th December 2010, 10:37 AM   #25
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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Guys, guys, guys! Yesterday I bought it! WoOoOW!

The cartridge is the cheapest Stanton 20 hz to 17 khz and I already degraded the needle :lol:
For pre-amp I use my Behringer VMX-100 mixer, the power amp is vintage SS Pioneer 4xx series from the 70's and the speakers are MJK's Goldwood H-frame with my design OB with Fane 6-100 mid and ribbon tweeter.

Stereo is much better than CD, localisation has height and the picture is stable and so very detailed!

I am most surprised by the low frequencies and the high frequencies... Such true and strong bass with no corrections, eq or whatsoever. And there is so much detail in between? All frequencies are so balanced?

Why the fact that a turntable is so much better than a cd is not part of the common knowledge? And it's better at once and with cheap electronics! *-*

I only have some static electricity discharging through the needle from time to time issue.

Best regards! Photos coming!
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Old 5th December 2010, 01:07 PM   #26
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Just today, out of curiousity I have checked a 24/96 "virgin" Vinyl rip from Hans Zimmer's Inception soundtrack - a CD I know very well. I don't know the source of course, or quality of the turntable used, but it's not listenable. Low volumes of course, the constant clicks, cracks & mechanical sounds that I can't "listen past". High volumes everything starts getting compressed, individual sounds merge and cracking/screetching sounds (not digital clip) - a waste of 1.2 gigabyte. Can someone point me to a good executed vinyl rip so I can compare to redbook? I am in the believe it's not the digital process that's causing some CD's to be "unlistenable" - it's the mastering that's cr*p.
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Old 5th December 2010, 01:10 PM   #27
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If you are referring to occasional pops and ticks in the sound, those may simply be due to contaminants in the grooves. If it is static I would dial up the humidity in your listening room.
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Old 5th December 2010, 04:37 PM   #28
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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Hello again,

Here are the photos.

I'm very happy!

I have only one new double album of Herbie Hancock, but it sounds really great, it's new release - The Imagine Project, there even is a track of duet between Pink and John Legend and another written by Peter Gabriel... - probably it's luck this to be my first Vinyl because it's really great sounding.

I dug my father's old vinyls and I bought a second hand Deep Purple vinyl and the clicks appear to be from dust and particles... because with the Herbie Hancock I don't get any clicks...

Now I need to know a good method for cleaning of vinyls. There isa vinil cleaning kit at the store here, but it's suspicious to me - the brush isn't a brush, but something hard... - carbon was the latest fashion in vinyl brushes?

Which is the better approach when listening to an old and dirty record? To increase the pressure and the anti-skating or the opposite? Because the tolerance for that cartridge is 0.75 to 1.5 grams.
The middle is 1.125 grams - should I set it there for general use?

The sound is so good with the Behringer and the Pioneer, that I don't feel need to go to our summerhouse and get the Monster Yamaha system I'll listen like this until I begin to find flaws in the sound and then I'll think what to do. Probably with an MX-1000 and C-85 the sound will be even more explosive and refined, but now it's just great...

So, Mission accomplished! A good turntable with good record, cheap cartridge and cheap to crappy electronics easily outperform CD played through a much more sophisticated and expensive system! And on top of that the reference CD system is all the top models of Yamaha of the most renowned series ever.
I'll buy the Imagine Project on CD - just to be sure...

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Old 6th December 2010, 04:41 AM   #29
benb is offline benb  United States
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I say always keep the stylus and antiskating force in the middle of the range. Dirty records should be cleaned as best as practical before playing, else you'll be cleaning the stylus as well.

For dirty records you most definitely need hygiene. There's a bunch of good methods and devices, from as cheap as a bottle of PVA wood glue to machines costing hundreds of dollars or more. Vacuum machines by Nitty Gritty and VPI are popular - the Keith Monks probably would be popular if it weren't so expensive. And there's a longish thread her on using an ultrasonic cleaning machine for LP's. I rarely clean my stylus because I rarely have to do so.

When you want to upgrade the cartridge, there's the AT440MLa. I just got one, after having the original, out-of-production AT440ML for almost ten years and which still plays fine. I just thought I had to get the new one to hear the difference. Amazon has it for $99, and I highly recommend it. The new one is on my SL-1300. Reviews say the new one is a little less bright than the old one, but playing the same LP, they sound just the same to me.

There may surely cartridges that sound better than the AT440MLa, but I can't afford to listen to one, I'd have to buy it...

Especially with the LP cleaning, records are high-maintenance but there are plenty of people here who feel the results are worth it.
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Old 7th December 2010, 09:27 PM   #30
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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The SL-1200 is a pretty good turntable, though so-called 'audiophiles' usually do not like it. It outperforms a lot of their admired stuff. Congratulations to your choice, and be happy with it.
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