"The Phoenix" an Ariston Audio RD80 TT Rebuild - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Analogue Source

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd October 2010, 04:24 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern Tier NY
Default "The Phoenix" an Ariston Audio RD80 TT Rebuild

The time has come to redo my butcherd Ariston Audio RD80. In my youth, I had this great idea of improving the original design and ended up messing it up. Recently I did get it to work quite well when I built the Simplistic JFET RIAA. The problem is that the Simplistic RIAA FAR outclasses the table by many orders of magnitude. Hence, my decision to rebuild it.

My goals for the project are:

This is an interim project. I plan to experiment with materials in this build so I can build my Super Table at some point in the future. I want to keep the costs within reason for that reason.

Re-use bearing, platter and AC motor. I have the Magnapan tonearm with its slightly off mounting dimension so I would build it for that arm, but yet have the plinth compact enough to play with arms like the Nanook or Schroeder in 12" versions. Size is also important later when I want to externalize the motor.

I have decided to forego the suspension and go the route of absorbing materials and mass.

An aluminum plate will be sandwiched between instrument grade wood and a cast Silicone / Leadshot composit mass cast underneath. I hope the drawings and picts explain the ideas.

The tonearm board isn't shown but will be made of instrument grade curly maple.

Despite having no suspension, energy dissapation and absorbtion will be important in the design. The plinth, bearing, and toenarm will each have their own masses which are decoupled from each other. The mass for each will be significant enough to sink the energy.


I am very open to ideas, thoughts and experience you may have had building a table. I appreciate all comments both positive and negative in that regard.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC02626.JPG (158.4 KB, 298 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02630.JPG (159.1 KB, 278 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02631.JPG (146.7 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02632.JPG (151.9 KB, 258 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02634.JPG (142.6 KB, 251 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Turntable Plinth drawing.pdf (14.8 KB, 37 views)
__________________
Living Life Doing the Waltz in 4/4 meter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 06:18 PM   #2
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Nanook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chinook Country.Alberta
Default looks good...

thanks for considering the "Nanook" arm...

it does not belong in the same paragraph as a Schroeder, or similar. My "219" is an easy to make arm using easy to find parts, and I think it competes nicely with my SME 309. I have no idea how it would compare to a a truly excellent design.

Think of my "219" as more of an upgraded or modified Altmann tonearm. About as simple as you can get.

Your plinth design looks great. The stock Ariston plinths are terrible. On a RD11, they are pressboard veneered with hardwood. I must say that if Linn LP12 tables are similar (never had one apart), then I'd consider them a rip-off.

I look forward to your progress.
__________________
stew -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 07:32 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern Tier NY
Nanook, your arm is of similar concept to the Magnepan arm I have as well. Simplicity rules if done right so don't humble yourself too much.
I haven't heard either the Shroeder or your arm but I would like to make both.

Its cold out so had to take a break from the woodshop. Cutting aluminum with a router is messy.
__________________
Living Life Doing the Waltz in 4/4 meter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 07:42 PM   #4
wjlamp is offline wjlamp  Greece
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Athens,Greece
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGregory View Post
The time has come to redo my butcherd Ariston Audio RD80. In my youth, I had this great idea of improving the original design and ended up messing it up. Recently I did get it to work quite well when I built the Simplistic JFET RIAA. The problem is that the Simplistic RIAA FAR outclasses the table by many orders of magnitude. Hence, my decision to rebuild it.

My goals for the project are:

This is an interim project. I plan to experiment with materials in this build so I can build my Super Table at some point in the future. I want to keep the costs within reason for that reason.

Re-use bearing, platter and AC motor. I have the Magnapan tonearm with its slightly off mounting dimension so I would build it for that arm, but yet have the plinth compact enough to play with arms like the Nanook or Schroeder in 12" versions. Size is also important later when I want to externalize the motor.

I have decided to forego the suspension and go the route of absorbing materials and mass.

An aluminum plate will be sandwiched between instrument grade wood and a cast Silicone / Leadshot composit mass cast underneath. I hope the drawings and picts explain the ideas.

The tonearm board isn't shown but will be made of instrument grade curly maple.

Despite having no suspension, energy dissapation and absorbtion will be important in the design. The plinth, bearing, and toenarm will each have their own masses which are decoupled from each other. The mass for each will be significant enough to sink the energy.


I am very open to ideas, thoughts and experience you may have had building a table. I appreciate all comments both positive and negative in that regard.

Hi,

considering that you aim for a relatively budget project,you can use a plexiglass tube,for the bearing and platter,circa 120 mm diameter,and a height of 100 mm.It must be "capped",both ends.You can fill the tube with quartz sand or acrylic mastic,though a 50/50 mixture of both,will work wonders,for isolation.You can use some nice cones on the underside,improving immunity from feedback.
For the tonearm base,and motor pod use the same technique ,though a smaller tube 80 mm,and the relative height would be fine.You can mount them on a skeletal base,platter and arm,and let the motor pod,be where it fits best.

B.L.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 08:11 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern Tier NY
B.L. I did think about using sand and still may. I have about 6 liters of castable silicone from a project I had several years ago. It is the stuff that simulates skin and is used by costume designers. It is stable enough not to flow over time but makes wonderfully dead material when mixed with lead shot. I can combine that with a sand pocket to further improve sound absorbtion.
__________________
Living Life Doing the Waltz in 4/4 meter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 08:31 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post
The stock Ariston plinths are terrible. On a RD11, they are pressboard veneered with hardwood. I must say that if Linn LP12 tables are similar (never had one apart), then I'd consider them a rip-off.
Yup, Linn even copied the sub-chassis shape. The plinths are solid wood though, and stiff, especially the later "corner braced" ones.

jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 08:37 PM   #7
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Nanook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chinook Country.Alberta
Default Jeff,

I was referring to the plinths in particular. The RD11 is very cheap, made of hardboard or similar and veneered. The one I (still) have here is going back the way it is. I've bought some nice teak to make a good plinth. I may re-make the original Ariston using BB ply, and veneer it, just because the stock Ariston one is so terrible, I'd feel bad giving it back to Moray's friend knowing what it is made of.
__________________
stew -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 09:27 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Even the cheap pine plywood from central BC would be a step in the right direction.

jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 09:34 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern Tier NY
Ok, here is the aluminum sheet for the top plate, now routed out. You can see how the bearing plate, motor mount and tonearm board will be decoupled from each other. The second photo shows the gaps being filled with silicone. The final picture is of the silicone mixed with lead shot.

When I am ready, I will make a mold on the bottom side of the plate to pour each of the masses needed in-situ. They will be seperated by a gap which corresponds to the routed passages. The bearing and tonearm masses will have a cavity for sand as was sugested above.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC02638.JPG (150.8 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02639.JPG (129.2 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02640.JPG (150.4 KB, 72 views)
__________________
Living Life Doing the Waltz in 4/4 meter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 09:48 PM   #10
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Nanook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chinook Country.Alberta
Default SGregory....looks good.

but a couple of thoughts.

Idlers seem to do well with massive plinths, but the consensus is that belt drives sound better on low mass plinths (therefore less stored energy ) or hugely massive ones that basically become energy sinks. Had you considered an ultra lightweight top plate/plinth?

Much has been written concerning Linn type tables and light-weight plinths.
__________________
stew -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Audio Research amp rebuild bacoburn Solid State 0 17th October 2009 10:20 PM
Old School Car Audio -- SS D200, Phoenix, etc Nismoron Swap Meet 1 30th August 2009 11:18 PM
Need suggestions for my next TT - totally lost in the sea of TT models Razorblade Analogue Source 10 22nd April 2009 12:28 AM
Ariston QDeck TT jkeny Analogue Source 4 21st February 2005 07:18 PM
DIY tonearm for rebuild tt Alexander Analogue Source 2 15th January 2004 08:50 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2