Hello to everyone,
I would like to share with you the work I did last Saturday on my Thorens TD 124. My table has received a new upgrade: new idler wheel, new step pulley bushing and three brand new gel motor grommets. Let's start with the first point. Last week here in Munich there was the Munich High End, the biggest fair of High End in Europe. I had the possibility to talk with Simone Lucchetti, a man from Rome who is very known in Italy to be a great expertise of TD 124. Lucchetti developed its own idler wheel, therefore I decided to give it a try. The idler wheel is in aluminium and its weight is 54,34 gr: the original idler wheel has a weight of 66,88 gr. The new idler wheel mounts rubber o-rings, that can be easily changed. This idler wheel should reduce a lot the rumble and improve the turntable performance: well, I can confirm that rumble is reduced, on the other hand I don't notice big difference in the turntable performances in the cold phase or in the sound.
Than I replaced the bearing of the step pulley: I remember that we have talked about it here on the forum. Changing it is very straightforward, I just used an M4 allen bolt, a nut and a pair of washers plus a piece of rod, in order to receive the old bearings. Here a photo of the old bearings (on the right) and the new one (on the left), bought from the spanish seller that we know.
Hear the new bearing in place
As you can see, there is now only one bearing, instead of two, whose total length is equal to the sum of the previous two. The noise coming from the step pulley is now reduced a lot, therefore I am happy of the installation, considering also the tension I had doing the operation. As said it was not difficult but in any case a stressing action
At the end I mounted the three gel motor grommets: honestly said, I see an improvement in vibrations' absorption but not as much as I expected. Here a shot of the TD 124 after the work.
Finally, I would like to share with you also my experience in replacing the bearing of the original idler wheel. Something strange happened: I bought two replacement bearings always from the same seller in Spain. The bearings, before fitting them, could easily be mounted on the idler wheel shaft. I replace the first bearing in the idler wheel: I tried to fit it on the shaft and the bearing didn't want to fit on it! I thought "something wrong has happened, let's try with the other one". Same result: I measured the inner diameter of the mounted bearing, it was only 4 mm instead of 5 mm (diameter of the shaft). It seems that those bearings change their internal diameter, maybe due to the compression of the idler wheel's walls. Has anyone of you already mounted those "spanish" bearings on an idler wheel? What are your experiences?
I've terminated my post, I hope it was helpful for the TD 124's community. I want to say that I don't have any affiliation with the idler wheel's seller, I want only share with you this new possibility of replacing idler wheel.
Cheers
Maurizio
P.S. Do you think it's useful to change the power cord of the turntable? Is there any improvement? I still have the original one.
I would like to share with you the work I did last Saturday on my Thorens TD 124. My table has received a new upgrade: new idler wheel, new step pulley bushing and three brand new gel motor grommets. Let's start with the first point. Last week here in Munich there was the Munich High End, the biggest fair of High End in Europe. I had the possibility to talk with Simone Lucchetti, a man from Rome who is very known in Italy to be a great expertise of TD 124. Lucchetti developed its own idler wheel, therefore I decided to give it a try. The idler wheel is in aluminium and its weight is 54,34 gr: the original idler wheel has a weight of 66,88 gr. The new idler wheel mounts rubber o-rings, that can be easily changed. This idler wheel should reduce a lot the rumble and improve the turntable performance: well, I can confirm that rumble is reduced, on the other hand I don't notice big difference in the turntable performances in the cold phase or in the sound.
Than I replaced the bearing of the step pulley: I remember that we have talked about it here on the forum. Changing it is very straightforward, I just used an M4 allen bolt, a nut and a pair of washers plus a piece of rod, in order to receive the old bearings. Here a photo of the old bearings (on the right) and the new one (on the left), bought from the spanish seller that we know.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hear the new bearing in place
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As you can see, there is now only one bearing, instead of two, whose total length is equal to the sum of the previous two. The noise coming from the step pulley is now reduced a lot, therefore I am happy of the installation, considering also the tension I had doing the operation. As said it was not difficult but in any case a stressing action
At the end I mounted the three gel motor grommets: honestly said, I see an improvement in vibrations' absorption but not as much as I expected. Here a shot of the TD 124 after the work.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Finally, I would like to share with you also my experience in replacing the bearing of the original idler wheel. Something strange happened: I bought two replacement bearings always from the same seller in Spain. The bearings, before fitting them, could easily be mounted on the idler wheel shaft. I replace the first bearing in the idler wheel: I tried to fit it on the shaft and the bearing didn't want to fit on it! I thought "something wrong has happened, let's try with the other one". Same result: I measured the inner diameter of the mounted bearing, it was only 4 mm instead of 5 mm (diameter of the shaft). It seems that those bearings change their internal diameter, maybe due to the compression of the idler wheel's walls. Has anyone of you already mounted those "spanish" bearings on an idler wheel? What are your experiences?
I've terminated my post, I hope it was helpful for the TD 124's community. I want to say that I don't have any affiliation with the idler wheel's seller, I want only share with you this new possibility of replacing idler wheel.
Cheers
Maurizio
P.S. Do you think it's useful to change the power cord of the turntable? Is there any improvement? I still have the original one.
Last edited:
Maurizio,
Thanks for sharing the updates. Interesting your experience with the idler wheel bushings - I'd have expected them to be sized correctly for post installation..
Most interesting IMO is the new idler. Would be interesting to know whether or not the new version transmits, more or less noise from the intermediate (stepped) pulley as compared to the original part.
There is no benefit I can see to installing a new line cord other than potentially enhanced safety and/or convenience. It might not be a bad idea to install a 3 wire cord with safety ground which would allow you to ground the chassis. In this case do not tie the arm and chassis grounds together in order to avoid ground loops.
Thanks for sharing the updates. Interesting your experience with the idler wheel bushings - I'd have expected them to be sized correctly for post installation..
Most interesting IMO is the new idler. Would be interesting to know whether or not the new version transmits, more or less noise from the intermediate (stepped) pulley as compared to the original part.
There is no benefit I can see to installing a new line cord other than potentially enhanced safety and/or convenience. It might not be a bad idea to install a 3 wire cord with safety ground which would allow you to ground the chassis. In this case do not tie the arm and chassis grounds together in order to avoid ground loops.
thorens TD-124 MK2
Hello all, i'm also interested in that idler wheel it looks great. i use a 3 core flex on mine with an earth with no hum problems at all. i've only recently noticed this forum and it is very informative i could have done with it when i started rebuilding mine. lots of experience and knowledge. this is mine so far. i say so far because their is always an improvement to do
Hello all, i'm also interested in that idler wheel it looks great. i use a 3 core flex on mine with an earth with no hum problems at all. i've only recently noticed this forum and it is very informative i could have done with it when i started rebuilding mine. lots of experience and knowledge. this is mine so far. i say so far because their is always an improvement to do
Attachments
Hi,
I don't know if the forum rules allow me to give the link for the idler wheel. Maybe a PM would be better.
I have a question regarding the motor oil: I never rebuild my motor but I've only lubricated it with the Joel's oil kit. The motor works good, with about 10 seconds cold-phase to reach the operating speed. By the way, the motor shows some vibrations and the speed is not 100% constant after the warming phase, but I have always to adjust it with the speed control knob. Therefore I've decided to rebuild the motor: I've two questions regarding the operation. In your opinion is the kit available on ebay of good quality? I think it's a seller based in the USA, I've never bought something from him. And second, which oil should be used to soak the motor bearings? As previously said, I have here the Joel's oil, but it's such a low quantity that I cannot imagine to soak entirely the bearings with it. I've found this link ƒg�[ƒŒƒ“ƒX THORENS model TD 124 and at the end he says that the Schopper oil has a viscosity comparable to a Spindle Oil ISO VG 22. I found an ISO VG 22 Spindle Oil here in Germany, could it be ok for the TD motor?
Thanks
I don't know if the forum rules allow me to give the link for the idler wheel. Maybe a PM would be better.
I have a question regarding the motor oil: I never rebuild my motor but I've only lubricated it with the Joel's oil kit. The motor works good, with about 10 seconds cold-phase to reach the operating speed. By the way, the motor shows some vibrations and the speed is not 100% constant after the warming phase, but I have always to adjust it with the speed control knob. Therefore I've decided to rebuild the motor: I've two questions regarding the operation. In your opinion is the kit available on ebay of good quality? I think it's a seller based in the USA, I've never bought something from him. And second, which oil should be used to soak the motor bearings? As previously said, I have here the Joel's oil, but it's such a low quantity that I cannot imagine to soak entirely the bearings with it. I've found this link ƒg�[ƒŒƒ“ƒX THORENS model TD 124 and at the end he says that the Schopper oil has a viscosity comparable to a Spindle Oil ISO VG 22. I found an ISO VG 22 Spindle Oil here in Germany, could it be ok for the TD motor?
Thanks
The forum permits links..
The oil sounds appropriate from what you describe, and even a bit closer than the 20wt electric motor oil I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Warm the oil up to ~75 degrees C before impregnating the new bearings, and just be sure to really soak those felts. (I didn't and I had cause to regret it later.)
The oil sounds appropriate from what you describe, and even a bit closer than the 20wt electric motor oil I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Warm the oil up to ~75 degrees C before impregnating the new bearings, and just be sure to really soak those felts. (I didn't and I had cause to regret it later.)
NUOVA PULEGGIA THORENS CON O-RING TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay
Hello,
I've replaced my original idler wheel with this O ring idler from Simone lucchetti. It's beautifully made and works perfectly. Using my stethoscope on the armboard to listen to the rumble and motor noise coming through, I can tell it is much quieter than with my original. My TT is the MK I model and I'm using the single gel type grommets per motor post. Simone sells the longer motor posts to convert to a MkII motor mount. He also sells the MKII motor coils which will enable the motor to provide more torque.
The change in idler has change the the sound of my system. How exactly, I am not certain. I need to listen some more and swap my old idler back in to compare. My initial reaction: my system sounds better. Sorry that's all I got for now.
Regards,
David
NUOVA PULEGGIA THORENS CON O-RING TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay
Hello,
I've replaced my original idler wheel with this O ring idler from Simone lucchetti. It's beautifully made and works perfectly. Using my stethoscope on the armboard to listen to the rumble and motor noise coming through, I can tell it is much quieter than with my original. My TT is the MK I model and I'm using the single gel type grommets per motor post. Simone sells the longer motor posts to convert to a MkII motor mount. He also sells the MKII motor coils which will enable the motor to provide more torque.
The change in idler has change the the sound of my system. How exactly, I am not certain. I need to listen some more and swap my old idler back in to compare. My initial reaction: my system sounds better. Sorry that's all I got for now.
Regards,
David
Hello ,
I bought two idler wheels from Simone too.Simone is very nice and easey person. My experience the wheels runs quieteras original wheel but the bronze bushings diameter of the new wheels is not the same, one idler wheel fits perfect and the othe one has slihgtly large busching diameter. Maybe I´ve got the bad one. The black O ring is also not perfect it has a seam in the midle and it couses some rumbles and the rubber is to hard.But it better as original wheel
But I ´ve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm
Thanks a lot!
Vic
Hi, I've also noticed this little imperfection of the O-Ring and noticed some rumble. By the way, I solved it just turning the O-Ring in the idler wheel profile, in order to put in contact the "clean" O-Ring surface with the step-pulley.
.
Is the platter turning too fast also when the original idler wheel is mounted? I haven't noticed appreciable difference of the diameters between the original and the new idler wheel. Therefore I don't think that there's an effect due to a change of the total transmission ratio. The only thing I can think of about a possible cause is the magnet of the eddy current break. Are you sure it has still got its magnetism, I mean 100% of its property? I've read somewhere in the forum that some people did notice a decreasing of the magnetic effect, it turned in a too fast turntable. They solved the situation changing the magnet. Right now, there is a magnet on Ebay.
Tschüss
Maurizio
HelloThe forum permits links..
The oil sounds appropriate from what you describe, and even a bit closer than the 20wt electric motor oil I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Warm the oil up to ~75 degrees C before impregnating the new bearings, and just be sure to really soak those felts. (I didn't and I had cause to regret it later.)
sorry for my English : = )
Would You mind to help me with the motor of td124?
It runs to quick. The magnet is placed very clouse as possible and didn´t lost his magnetism. Motor was cleaned, all parts are in very good condition, Castrol 20W öl.... The strobe turns some to quicke with the pitch ajustment turned 100% from right to left ( it gehts slower but not enough). I guess its not mechanical problem of magnet or stepped pulley.
Motor is very very quiet, it turns ca. 6 sec after the switched to the stop.
Once I turned the turntable 180° and the motor start to make some uneven noises after .I opened the motor, it was some oil leakage from the bottom bearing on the motor rotor. I cleaned it it turns free and silent but too fast
I would be happy to get some help..
Thanks
Vic
Originally Posted by oregon
But I ´ve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm
Have you measured the power grid voltage ?
But I ´ve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm
Have you measured the power grid voltage ?
Hello oregon
Hello oregon,
All O-rings have a seam. When it is exessive it is called flash. You might try to buy a higher quality O-ring. While you are doing that, you could also try O-rings of different hardnesses. In the US, the hardness of O-rings is measured as "SHORE" hardness with a number such as SHORE-50. The material also makes a difference. If you go to the WWW.applerubber.com website you can learn much about O-rings.
I can see why your motor runs too fast. The O-ring has a curved face. It takes less force to push it against the inside diameter of the platter and therefore the motor sees less resistance. A softer O-ring might solve that problem.
The diameter of the idler has no effect on the rotational speed of the platter. The diameter of the idler in my TD-124 is 79mm.
I hope that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hello oregon,
All O-rings have a seam. When it is exessive it is called flash. You might try to buy a higher quality O-ring. While you are doing that, you could also try O-rings of different hardnesses. In the US, the hardness of O-rings is measured as "SHORE" hardness with a number such as SHORE-50. The material also makes a difference. If you go to the WWW.applerubber.com website you can learn much about O-rings.
I can see why your motor runs too fast. The O-ring has a curved face. It takes less force to push it against the inside diameter of the platter and therefore the motor sees less resistance. A softer O-ring might solve that problem.
The diameter of the idler has no effect on the rotational speed of the platter. The diameter of the idler in my TD-124 is 79mm.
I hope that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hello trix1985
The seam or parting line of the O-ring naturally wants to be in the wrong position because it was molded that way. When you are twisting it to put the seam on the side of the idler, you are introducing stresses into the O-ring.These stresses won't harm the O-ring but I'll bet the O-ring will work its way back to the relaxed, as molded condition. One fix might be to carefully glass-bead the face of the idler so that it grips the O-ring to stop it from twisting. It is hard to see in the photographs, does the idler have two side by side O-rings or just one?
When I first saw that idler, I thought, what a neat idea.
Sincerely,
Ralf
The seam or parting line of the O-ring naturally wants to be in the wrong position because it was molded that way. When you are twisting it to put the seam on the side of the idler, you are introducing stresses into the O-ring.These stresses won't harm the O-ring but I'll bet the O-ring will work its way back to the relaxed, as molded condition. One fix might be to carefully glass-bead the face of the idler so that it grips the O-ring to stop it from twisting. It is hard to see in the photographs, does the idler have two side by side O-rings or just one?
When I first saw that idler, I thought, what a neat idea.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hello
Thank You for reply.
Motor: I don´t think so... The turns of motor depend from how much Hz, Voltage and A comes in.If the motor is in bad or not cleaned condition it might turns slower. I cleaned it and got the good results, the speed was correct at first.
My guess the curved profile of O Ring makes no differens, it might comes to better or worse results to how quick the platter rich the right speed.But Im not sure.
Best regards,
vic
Hello oregon
The TD-124 motor is an induction motor. It is NOT locked to the line frequency. If it were, the Eddy Current brake would make no sense. Variations in load will make it run at different speeds. You stated that the motor ran at the correct speed before you changed the idler. So why wouldn't you suspect the new idler? The original idler has a flat face where it engages the platter which puts a larger load on the motor than the round faced O-ring does.
Sincerely,
Ralf
The TD-124 motor is an induction motor. It is NOT locked to the line frequency. If it were, the Eddy Current brake would make no sense. Variations in load will make it run at different speeds. You stated that the motor ran at the correct speed before you changed the idler. So why wouldn't you suspect the new idler? The original idler has a flat face where it engages the platter which puts a larger load on the motor than the round faced O-ring does.
Sincerely,
Ralf
I have bought the same wheel and when I swap between that and the original
there is only a very slight speed difference which I can correct within a 1\4 turn of the speed adjusting wheel so I'd think Oregon's problem lies somewhere else...
I have sanded very lightly the seam and now the surface is quite even, though I didn't notice any improvement with noise (rumble was already quite low).
I think quite an improvement would be to use a silicon O-ring which will have much more grip than the black rubber (their surface is also more even) but it's not easy to find that size in small quantities.
Hello gullaz
If you could carefully remove the O-ring from the idler wheel and measure its inside diameter, I could find a source for you. In the meantime look here: McMaster-Carr.
I don't exactly know how an Eddy Current brake works but maybe one could experiment with the position of the magnet, relative to the aluminum pulley. I would measure the gap before I'd do that so that I could put the magnet back into its original location.
There are so-called MIL- SPEC O-rings that probably have less obvious seams.
Sincerely,
Ralf
If you could carefully remove the O-ring from the idler wheel and measure its inside diameter, I could find a source for you. In the meantime look here: McMaster-Carr.
I don't exactly know how an Eddy Current brake works but maybe one could experiment with the position of the magnet, relative to the aluminum pulley. I would measure the gap before I'd do that so that I could put the magnet back into its original location.
There are so-called MIL- SPEC O-rings that probably have less obvious seams.
Sincerely,
Ralf
" the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?"
Straight Tracker - I took this to mean he'd already adjusted the eddy current magnet. By the way, tip of a hat to you in Prescott. My father lived there for many years before passing a few years back. I've a good friend over the hill in Wilhoit that I get down to see fairly often. He's the guy who found a TD 124/II for $4 and gave it to me!
Straight Tracker - I took this to mean he'd already adjusted the eddy current magnet. By the way, tip of a hat to you in Prescott. My father lived there for many years before passing a few years back. I've a good friend over the hill in Wilhoit that I get down to see fairly often. He's the guy who found a TD 124/II for $4 and gave it to me!