Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII

Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
Funny you are going to use slate and hardwood, as that is exactly what I decided to do for plinths for the Thorens and Garrards I have cooking. Slate is definitely excellent for this and I have racks with slate shelves that are very dead.

As I am building such a plinth for my TD124, I can easily make one for you to your design, as slate and tropical hardwoods are inexpensive, as is the labor here. I have a good friend who is a Japan trained furniture maker that can make the plinths. Let me know what you would like to do.

In short, absolutely yes. We'll do this instead of the conical horns we previously talked about. I am sure it will be awesome..
 
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
So it may be slightly OT, but why are these considered so good?
As I noted before, I loved mine but thought the whole pinch roller thing was goofy and a step down from belt drive. Little did I know.

What makes the 124 so good?


That is in short what I am trying to figure out, and if indeed it is as good as claimed. (It is extremely well made, better than anything I have seen with the exception of an SME 20 which lives with me.)

I would say the careful engineering, attention to detail, and construction quality play a big role here.

These tables are noted for PRAT and authority, in modern high mass plinths they can also be very quiet..

Let's put it this way I have heard a Fairchild 750 (leather! belt drive) in slate plinth, and a couple of Garrard 301/401s, and I have heard sound comparable to that from nothing less modest than an SME 20/2 so... Some how they all seem to be able to bring you closer to the music, something that the TD-124 allegedly excels at even in comparison to the others. (The Fairchild is beyond amazing in the right plinth, 16" Sheu, and Ortofon SPU) It will be directly compared to the SME 20, so we will see.
 
Last edited:
just put my td124 MKI back in service after 4 years in storage .It must be the arm Grace 707 because it sorta sucks. (thats why it went to storage) The rythm and drive may be there but nothing more. rather flat ,two dimmensional presntation with sources occupying the middle of the stage. I don't remember anymore my source of "inspiration" for the plinth ,I think I was drinking way too much of skandinavian vodka at that time ;)
 

Attachments

  • thorens 002.jpg
    thorens 002.jpg
    732.8 KB · Views: 2,166
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
just put my td124 MKI back in service after 4 years in storage .It must be the arm Grace 707 because it sorta sucks. (thats why it went to storage) The rythm and drive may be there but nothing more. rather flat ,two dimmensional presntation with sources occupying the middle of the stage. I don't remember anymore my source of "inspiration" for the plinth ,I think I was drinking way too much of skandinavian vodka at that time ;)

Actually a lot of people say the Grace 707 is a good choice for the TD-124, but I have no idea of the veracity of this.. Cartridge choice plays a role here obviously. And my understanding is that a lot of work is required to liberate the TD-124 from its shortcomings.. I have embarked on that path, and plan on a custom slate/hardwood plinth as a major part of the project. Early MKI with the teflon bearing inserts need an upgrade urgently - you might want to check that out.. In any event if you have not serviced the motor, and main bearing this needs to be done before forming an impression.

What about the plinth - solid and heavy?

FWIW I have no idea what I am going to end up with at the end of this road - the journey itself is entertaining enough. The SME 20 will provide a reference.

Devil's advocate, is that a Grado Platinum or Sonata or ? on the Grace? Having lived with a Platinum for a couple of years I would have to say your description of the table's sound might be laid at the feet of that cartridge.. I was almost ready to abandon analog before I acquired a ZU/Denon DL-103 and was rather strongly reminded that all cartridges are not created equal.. Might want to try something else. The Grace might not be synergistic either, but I just don't know for sure..
 
Last edited:
The motor was taken appart and lubricated and silicone gell suspension grommets installed. main bearing had sintered bronze inserts since I got it and the deck spent most of its life unused by the first ownerbut I was taking off the platter so many times I may have had loosen it a bit;) Plinth is heavy affair CDL baltic birch layers with lead shot chambers and slate pieces glued to the side. Bottom layer of plinth forms an arm with a screw to support and ground the bearing bottom (a la shindo).Grace bearing feels good (but Im no expert) and the wire was replaced with cardas. The carts were grado sonata (bleh), pristine grace f9 MM (sleepy), ADc681 (simple but OK) Benz Ruby H (mismatch but with some promise) Don't get me wrong it sounds nice but nowhere near the cult status in the present state. I need to try RB 1000 from Rega but I don't hold my breath.
 
yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards
 

Attachments

  • 063.jpg
    063.jpg
    344.3 KB · Views: 1,896
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards

As long as you are careful reinserting the spindle into the bearing I can't imagine there would be an issue.. However the bearing should be roughly half full of oil, if a bit spills out on insertion that's ok - just remove platter and mop up the mess. It should take a long time for the spindle to sink to the bottom of the bearing well if there is sufficient oil in the bearing, and the platter should not be attached as the bearing seals can blow out if the spindle is forced to descend too quickly. (I support mine actually, a no no, but as I will replace the end cap soon I am not so worried) Mine has only enough oil in it to prevent damage, and will be subjected to a good flush out and replacement oil when I am ready. (20wt turbine oil or 3 in 1 "motor oil" - not the usual hardware store 3 in 1) Replacement bearings are actually reasonably priced compared to spare parts for a lot of newer TT.
 
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards

I think you would get very good money for it, the only cartridges that this would work well with would be something like the M3D..

SME 3009/3012 and Ortofon RMG212 were common higher end choices back in the old days.. Perhaps the current SME 309 or 310 might be nice choice. I actually conversed recently with someone who has a SME IV on his TD-124, presumably it sounds good. I think a new Sheu might be a good to excellent option as well.
 
Member
Joined 2003
Paid Member
kevinkr,
There is tons of slate quarries within a couple hours drive of you. Soapstone as well.
I am sure they have drops laying around for a bargain. A simple water saw will cut those in a heartbeat. If you are so vested, Lowes or Home Depot sell an in expensive circular water saw for less than $100. Otherwise look up a local tile installer. Most will cut it for a six pack.
 
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
kevinkr,
There is tons of slate quarries within a couple hours drive of you. Soapstone as well.
I am sure they have drops laying around for a bargain. A simple water saw will cut those in a heartbeat. If you are so vested, Lowes or Home Depot sell an in expensive circular water saw for less than $100. Otherwise look up a local tile installer. Most will cut it for a six pack.

Suggestion is much appreciated, unfortunately I don't have a lot of free time, and my wood working skills while functional are quite rudimentary, and I want this to be very nice in keeping with what I have already invested. The few people I have talked to have quoted me significant money to do the complex cut out in the slate portion for the TD-124 chassis.. I can actually get the whole thing made at a very high level of craftsmanship in Vietnam for a lot less than I could get the comparable item made here, and that includes shipping to get it here. (I have audiophile friends scattered across Asia.)
 
Last edited:
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
Heard today from the eBay seller of the many rebuild parts I bought for the TD-124, they are all in and the parts will ship this Saturday..

Recent massive multiple computer failures means I have two computers to rebuild before I can start the next phase of the TT project, but I will document and photograph at least some steps along the way once I do get going.
 
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
The parts have all arrived for the mechanical refresh.. Included are all of the parts needed to overhaul the motor, isolation bushings and a bunch of other parts. Now I just need to find the room to start on this.. Guess that means I should relocate some stuff off of the bench.. :D

I have managed to clear a little space and will start the disassembly, hopefully I can complete the overhaul before the next round of computer parts get here; I will need to focus on that once that happens.

To the right of the picture are the motor parts; felts, bearings, and fasteners, directly below are the special Japanese made motor mounts, and below them is a new Thorens OEM belt sourced from Thakker..

To the left are the TT chassis mounting bushings, again Japanese made, and they may or may not be used in the final iteration - depends on what arm and what plinth I am using..

Note that these parts cost about 3/4 of what I paid for this TT, however once installed the table should perform better than new.. So worth it..
 

Attachments

  • kit_scaled.jpg
    kit_scaled.jpg
    489 KB · Views: 1,668
Administrator
Joined 2004
Paid Member
Perhaps a bit of hyperbole, OTOH, fresh motor bearings and felts are a lot easier to deal with than cleaning the mess that came out of the motor bearing housings. Green goo - is that what oil turns into as it ages? :eek: And quite gluey - some harsh chemicals required.

The gel motor mount bushings are considerably better than the stock or replacement bushings typically available, and they seem to do a pretty good job..

The machine is running on my bench.. It seems reasonably quiet, and should get quieter with some run in time. (The motor got about 4hrs worth)

Obviously I will never know how this machine performed when new as I was not there at the time, the friend whose mother I purchased it from was, unfortunately had nothing more than anecdotal comments.

Better than new is more or less an expression of my enthusiasm.. (Limono this is for you.. :D ) Get yours sorted out and we can compare notes along the way.. Our journey may not be that different - I have no particular expectations of success, just a lot of hope.

I will say that with the rebuilt motor the speed stability is quite good, and it comes up to speed quickly - this all based on observing the strobe as I have not yet got an arm board and mounted the arm on it. I will say it seems more speed stable than the old TD-125...

I'll post pictures tomorrow evening as I need to go to bed. I took a lot of pictures of it coming apart and going back together. This work with fresh bearings only takes about 6 hrs from start to finish, cleaning and re-oiling bearings will make that about 12hrs I'd guess.

A quick observation, don't overfill the main bearing regardless of web advice - in my case the bearing is so tight that the shaft just sat on the pool of oil and would not fully seat - I had to remove more than half of the oil I added. Also on the MKII at least it seems unnecessary to remove the platter before reinstalling the spindle in the bearing well - just don't force it.

FWIW, the parts to completely overhaul most of this table cost little more than a few minor "spare parts" for an SME 20 with which I am well acquainted, and I also got a reasonably good deal on the purchase of the TT which came with a restorable and now restored SME 3009 Series II. For those who like to tweak this table offers a lot of opportunity.
 
Last edited: