Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII - Page 96 - diyAudio
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Old 13th March 2014, 04:49 PM   #951
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Just need to get a plinth and do a little work. I have the 50Hz platter so I am going to cobble up a 50Hz LED based strobe to replace the neon lamp. (Have all the parts - just need to build and install it on the table.)

The motor has been serviced, but the eddy current brake was mangled sometime in the past - I have another motor with a good one that I will swap in.

Just need to get a plinth..
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Old 13th March 2014, 05:12 PM   #952
his047 is offline his047  United Kingdom
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Sometimes I regret that I sold my 401. It would have been fun and informative to compare it to the TD124. It just happened that I sold the 401 when I got my new-ish SOTA and that the TD124 came along about a year later. I remember that I was mightily impressed with the 401/Mørch DP6/Ortofon MC7500 even when compared to the the same arm and Cart on the SOTA. But getting the TD124/SMG212/SPU Gold simply just blew me away. Not because it sounded 'better' but because it sounded more 'real'. Now I run it with an SME M2-12R/SPU 85 anniversary in a solid Birch plinth which is just excellent. I would have loved to try out the SME-SPU combination on the 401, but it was not to be.

I did find that the 401 benefited from an electronic speed control and if you are building a 50Hz strobe, I suppose it is just a matter of using a gain clone amp and a step up transformer.....

The real trick, I suppose is to have a variable sinus generator as the 'front end' to eliminate the eddy current brake.

Kevin, have you put the Hanze-HiFi springs in yet? I have found that I really do not give a damn about the belt and the step pulley after I put them in. They are a real improvement.
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Old 14th March 2014, 01:53 AM   #953
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Hi his047,
I finally installed the Hanze springs tonight, I waited until I was sure I had the manual dexterity required to do it. The process went well. In no sense did it address the issue with the belt and pulley unfortunately.

I had geltec bushings installed previously, and this table was already extraordinarily quiet, although I have been too lazy or sick to be bothered with such niceties as actually measuring the table noise floor.

What I can hear clearly is the very last vestige of motor noise that I could hear on lead in and lead out (I guess around 120Hz) is completely inaudible now.

Might be a hint more detail as well.

Certainly in terms of cost a viable alternative to the geltec bushings and they do seem to provide more isolation between the motor and chassis than the geltec bushings do. This is what I hear anyway..

While I changed only one thing at a time tonight I am having a system problem which probably centers around the RCA UX-226 nos globes I installed a few weeks ago in my line stage - the old Sylvanias ST 26s after countless hours of use were abruptly beyond their prime. I have another pair on the way, but they are not here yet making it hard for me to determine whether other aspects of performance were affected. I just don't find the RCAs resolve to the same degree and probably have some sort of linearity issue. They're NOS from a reputable antique radio supplier and I don't like them. Shame as they cost over $100 and I will have to move them along.

The other thing I did is throw up my hands, tell myself the last generation E50 is what it is, belts are what they are, and I plugged the thing into an antique Italian made auto transformer from my childhood which has a silly number of taps since Italy in those days had 110, 125, 140, 160, 180, and 220V mains in the mountainous regions of Northern Italy near the French border. We had 220V, right down the street was 160V.. I used the 140V and 125V taps which gives me 105V on 117V mains and the 124/II is quite happy.. The speed setting is almost centered.. I will make this permanent with a 12V Antek toroid in a nice box properly fused and plug n play.

It is much quieter at 105V, but takes a noticeably longer time to get up to speed when turned on.

The other table OTOH is happy as a clam on 117V, but is not as well centered.

Both are running with ~1mm clearances between the magnets and the stepped pulley which is far tighter than I have seen on an untouched table, and very common on any I have worked on that have been touched by others.

The line voltage here is at historical values during most of the day. So I am confused..

Perhaps despite seeming very strong perhaps the magnets are quite a bit weaker than when new. I have encountered only one that was more or less completely demagnetized.

Anyone equipped to remagnetize these things?
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Old 20th March 2014, 05:59 PM   #954
robert8 is offline robert8  United States
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Hi Kevin, I have been following this thread as I would like to begin restoring a td124 serial number 31xxx that I picked up on ebay years ago, but have never used. I have a few questions as I try to make decisions about the various parts suppliers to use. For instance, I was wondering whether the Mirko idler you recently installed has an o-ring, as you then made a comment questioning the validity of o-ring idlers. The Mirko idlers I've seen on ebay are described as using an o-ring. I would like to get the improved motor mounting kit. Would you recommend going straight to the hanze springs at this point? Thanks for sharing your ongoing work with the table.-Robert
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:26 AM   #955
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Hi Robert,
The Mirko idler is just a much nicer version based on the OEM part, not an o-ring based variation. I do not know whether or not this part is still available..

The Hanze springs are a very reasonable alternative to geltec bushings, and since they cost no more I would recommend them.

More than anything else perhaps, the MKII motor mounting kit is a must if you have an older TD-124 - huge difference.
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Old 27th March 2014, 10:23 PM   #956
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My .02
I have owned a TD124 for many years, I now own 3. when it rains it poures I guess.
What I have found with the 124 is.
I always use a Thorens belt, silent running then, a bad fitting belt, too thick, poor finish whatever = noise, speed problems.
The early nylon bearing is very sensitive to lubrication, I use thorens oil, For the oilite bearings 20wt.
Update to the MKii motor suspension for the E50.
The Papst motor uses the MKii suspension allready.
On the Papst typically every few years I clean the motor shaft, rinse out the old lube, re oil making sure to soak the felt lining and a dab of grease for the thrust. It's good for another few years.
The Papst motor whirs, but its mostly the noise from the turbines moving air, I have never heard a Papst that didnt whir, it's normal.
What I like about the Papst is it cools itself, great for an all day long vinyl spinning session.
In the early tables the intermediate pulley bushing can wear, you will hear a slight knocking, replace the bushing/ball bearing and reverse the support shaft.
In the later tables I have never had to replace the intermediate pulley bushing, i just keep it oiled.
Same for the main bearing, if the clearance is a bit high, replace the bushings. They can be selected for best fit.
The E50, I have rebuilt 2 replacing the bushings, and felt washers, I also use a silicon nitride thrust ball bearing. And carefully align the motor's shells for quietest running and carefully tighten the 4 screws. Let run for a couple hours and tweek the case, if you pick up noise. I have found that if they are out of alignment slightly the result is noise.
I typically clean the drive train a couple times a year, All 3 tables they run silently, its all I can do to hear them running. They come up to speed almost instantly, and are stable in a few minutes for hours on end.
The one danger is if the top platter must run absolutely true, if it's warped it would be a miracle getting it trued. I wouldnt recommend replacing the rubber bumpers, they are dead on from the factory.
Do not seperate the platter from the bearing shaft, That requires a dial gage to get it dead on.
I have owned many turntables over the years, The SP10 is one of my favorites, I still have it. But the TD124 is my favorite.
bob

Last edited by Rjones5296; 27th March 2014 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 28th March 2014, 10:02 PM   #957
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Well, I read through this whole thread which prompted me to tear into my TD-124 MKII. Got everything super clean, polished, etc. And decided to check the motor. I promptly lost the ball bearing so I replaced with a silicon nitrite from Boca.

Originally, my motor was pretty quiet, but with a minor scraping sound if I had my ear next to it. Now it's a whirling dervish. And no I didn't replace the bushings, just oiled the felts. I've tried repositioning the top/bottom covers and the bushings, but no luck.

What should I do? Buy the kit and do a rebuild? Please help!
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Old 28th March 2014, 10:06 PM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jswen View Post
Well, I read through this whole thread which prompted me to tear into my TD-124 MKII. Got everything super clean, polished, etc. And decided to check the motor. I promptly lost the ball bearing so I replaced with a silicon nitrite from Boca.

Originally, my motor was pretty quiet, but with a minor scraping sound if I had my ear next to it. Now it's a whirling dervish. And no I didn't replace the bushings, just oiled the felts. I've tried repositioning the top/bottom covers and the bushings, but no luck.

What should I do? Buy the kit and do a rebuild? Please help!
what size replacement ball ?
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Old 28th March 2014, 10:42 PM   #959
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2mm
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Old 28th March 2014, 11:50 PM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jswen View Post
2mm
Is the motor pully touching the triangular shield plate ?
Can you spin by hand ? any rubbing then ?
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