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Old 14th May 2013, 07:00 PM   #701
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Location: Munich
Hello to everyone,

I would like to share with you the work I did last Saturday on my Thorens TD 124. My table has received a new upgrade: new idler wheel, new step pulley bushing and three brand new gel motor grommets. Let's start with the first point. Last week here in Munich there was the Munich High End, the biggest fair of High End in Europe. I had the possibility to talk with Simone Lucchetti, a man from Rome who is very known in Italy to be a great expertise of TD 124. Lucchetti developed its own idler wheel, therefore I decided to give it a try. The idler wheel is in aluminium and its weight is 54,34 gr: the original idler wheel has a weight of 66,88 gr. The new idler wheel mounts rubber o-rings, that can be easily changed. This idler wheel should reduce a lot the rumble and improve the turntable performance: well, I can confirm that rumble is reduced, on the other hand I don't notice big difference in the turntable performances in the cold phase or in the sound.
Than I replaced the bearing of the step pulley: I remember that we have talked about it here on the forum. Changing it is very straightforward, I just used an M4 allen bolt, a nut and a pair of washers plus a piece of rod, in order to receive the old bearings. Here a photo of the old bearings (on the right) and the new one (on the left), bought from the spanish seller that we know.
Click the image to open in full size.

Hear the new bearing in place
Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, there is now only one bearing, instead of two, whose total length is equal to the sum of the previous two. The noise coming from the step pulley is now reduced a lot, therefore I am happy of the installation, considering also the tension I had doing the operation. As said it was not difficult but in any case a stressing action
At the end I mounted the three gel motor grommets: honestly said, I see an improvement in vibrations' absorption but not as much as I expected. Here a shot of the TD 124 after the work.
Click the image to open in full size.

Finally, I would like to share with you also my experience in replacing the bearing of the original idler wheel. Something strange happened: I bought two replacement bearings always from the same seller in Spain. The bearings, before fitting them, could easily be mounted on the idler wheel shaft. I replace the first bearing in the idler wheel: I tried to fit it on the shaft and the bearing didn't want to fit on it! I thought "something wrong has happened, let's try with the other one". Same result: I measured the inner diameter of the mounted bearing, it was only 4 mm instead of 5 mm (diameter of the shaft). It seems that those bearings change their internal diameter, maybe due to the compression of the idler wheel's walls. Has anyone of you already mounted those "spanish" bearings on an idler wheel? What are your experiences?

I've terminated my post, I hope it was helpful for the TD 124's community. I want to say that I don't have any affiliation with the idler wheel's seller, I want only share with you this new possibility of replacing idler wheel.

Cheers

Maurizio

P.S. Do you think it's useful to change the power cord of the turntable? Is there any improvement? I still have the original one.

Last edited by trix1985; 14th May 2013 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:39 PM   #702
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Maurizio,
Thanks for sharing the updates. Interesting your experience with the idler wheel bushings - I'd have expected them to be sized correctly for post installation..

Most interesting IMO is the new idler. Would be interesting to know whether or not the new version transmits, more or less noise from the intermediate (stepped) pulley as compared to the original part.

There is no benefit I can see to installing a new line cord other than potentially enhanced safety and/or convenience. It might not be a bad idea to install a 3 wire cord with safety ground which would allow you to ground the chassis. In this case do not tie the arm and chassis grounds together in order to avoid ground loops.
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Old 18th May 2013, 03:31 PM   #703
seanb is offline seanb  United Kingdom
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Smile thorens TD-124 MK2

Hello all, i'm also interested in that idler wheel it looks great. i use a 3 core flex on mine with an earth with no hum problems at all. i've only recently noticed this forum and it is very informative i could have done with it when i started rebuilding mine. lots of experience and knowledge. this is mine so far. i say so far because their is always an improvement to do
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Old 20th May 2013, 09:33 AM   #704
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Hi,

I don't know if the forum rules allow me to give the link for the idler wheel. Maybe a PM would be better.
I have a question regarding the motor oil: I never rebuild my motor but I've only lubricated it with the Joel's oil kit. The motor works good, with about 10 seconds cold-phase to reach the operating speed. By the way, the motor shows some vibrations and the speed is not 100% constant after the warming phase, but I have always to adjust it with the speed control knob. Therefore I've decided to rebuild the motor: I've two questions regarding the operation. In your opinion is the kit available on ebay of good quality? I think it's a seller based in the USA, I've never bought something from him. And second, which oil should be used to soak the motor bearings? As previously said, I have here the Joel's oil, but it's such a low quantity that I cannot imagine to soak entirely the bearings with it. I've found this link トーレンス THORENS model TD 124 and at the end he says that the Schopper oil has a viscosity comparable to a Spindle Oil ISO VG 22. I found an ISO VG 22 Spindle Oil here in Germany, could it be ok for the TD motor?

Thanks
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Old 20th May 2013, 11:29 PM   #705
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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The oil sounds appropriate from what you describe, and even a bit closer than the 20wt electric motor oil I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Warm the oil up to ~75 degrees C before impregnating the new bearings, and just be sure to really soak those felts. (I didn't and I had cause to regret it later.)
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Old 21st May 2013, 03:07 AM   #706
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NUOVA PULEGGIA THORENS CON O-RING TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay

Hello,
I've replaced my original idler wheel with this O ring idler from Simone lucchetti. It's beautifully made and works perfectly. Using my stethoscope on the armboard to listen to the rumble and motor noise coming through, I can tell it is much quieter than with my original. My TT is the MK I model and I'm using the single gel type grommets per motor post. Simone sells the longer motor posts to convert to a MkII motor mount. He also sells the MKII motor coils which will enable the motor to provide more torque.
The change in idler has change the the sound of my system. How exactly, I am not certain. I need to listen some more and swap my old idler back in to compare. My initial reaction: my system sounds better. Sorry that's all I got for now.
Regards,
David
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Old 28th May 2013, 02:08 PM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

NUOVA PULEGGIA THORENS CON O-RING TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay

Hello,
I've replaced my original idler wheel with this O ring idler from Simone lucchetti. It's beautifully made and works perfectly. Using my stethoscope on the armboard to listen to the rumble and motor noise coming through, I can tell it is much quieter than with my original. My TT is the MK I model and I'm using the single gel type grommets per motor post. Simone sells the longer motor posts to convert to a MkII motor mount. He also sells the MKII motor coils which will enable the motor to provide more torque.
The change in idler has change the the sound of my system. How exactly, I am not certain. I need to listen some more and swap my old idler back in to compare. My initial reaction: my system sounds better. Sorry that's all I got for now.
Regards,
David
Hello ,
I bought two idler wheels from Simone too.Simone is very nice and easey person. My experience the wheels runs quieteras original wheel but the bronze bushings diameter of the new wheels is not the same, one idler wheel fits perfect and the othe one has slihgtly large busching diameter. Maybe Iエve got the bad one. The black O ring is also not perfect it has a seam in the midle and it couses some rumbles and the rubber is to hard.But it better as original wheel
But I エve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm
Thanks a lot!
Vic
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Old 28th May 2013, 07:44 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by oregon View Post
Hello ,
The black O ring is also not perfect it has a seam in the midle and it couses some rumbles and the rubber is to hard.
Hi, I've also noticed this little imperfection of the O-Ring and noticed some rumble. By the way, I solved it just turning the O-Ring in the idler wheel profile, in order to put in contact the "clean" O-Ring surface with the step-pulley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregon View Post
But I エve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm
.

Is the platter turning too fast also when the original idler wheel is mounted? I haven't noticed appreciable difference of the diameters between the original and the new idler wheel. Therefore I don't think that there's an effect due to a change of the total transmission ratio. The only thing I can think of about a possible cause is the magnet of the eddy current break. Are you sure it has still got its magnetism, I mean 100% of its property? I've read somewhere in the forum that some people did notice a decreasing of the magnetic effect, it turned in a too fast turntable. They solved the situation changing the magnet. Right now, there is a magnet on Ebay.

Tschss
Maurizio
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Old 29th May 2013, 10:24 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
The forum permits links..

The oil sounds appropriate from what you describe, and even a bit closer than the 20wt electric motor oil I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Warm the oil up to ~75 degrees C before impregnating the new bearings, and just be sure to really soak those felts. (I didn't and I had cause to regret it later.)
Hello
sorry for my English : = )
Would You mind to help me with the motor of td124?
It runs to quick. The magnet is placed very clouse as possible and didnエt lost his magnetism. Motor was cleaned, all parts are in very good condition, Castrol 20W l.... The strobe turns some to quicke with the pitch ajustment turned 100% from right to left ( it gehts slower but not enough). I guess its not mechanical problem of magnet or stepped pulley.
Motor is very very quiet, it turns ca. 6 sec after the switched to the stop.
Once I turned the turntable 180ー and the motor start to make some uneven noises after .I opened the motor, it was some oil leakage from the bottom bearing on the motor rotor. I cleaned it it turns free and silent but too fast
I would be happy to get some help..
Thanks
Vic
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Old 29th May 2013, 08:39 PM   #710
volken is offline volken  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by oregon
But I エve got the other problem , my motor runs now slihgtly to fast, the brake is so close as possible, the speed ajustment turned max to left. Any one can help?
The motor worked well before, The Idler Wheel diameter with the O-Ring is 81mm

Have you measured the power grid voltage ?
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