Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII

[kevinkr]

Originally Posted by dvh99

hi kevin, like you i am looking at a thorens 125 or 124mkII and want to use a sme series III arm with a zu cartridge.

i mailed zuaudio to ask if their cartridge is compatible with the sme arm and they told me the sme arm needs a little counterweight.

how does this cartridge perform on this table and your sme II arm.
and is there a post somewhere in this thread that explains all the steps you have taken and maybe info about where you acquired all the things needed for your restoration.

cheers.

Hi dvh99,

These days I am using an SPU on a Schick transcription length arm in place of the ZU and 3009 Series II combination and prefer it strongly.

The 3009 Series III is designed for high compliance low mass cartridges and would not be a good match for the ZU or any of the DL-103 family even with a heavier or additional counter weight. Some of the better Nagaoka MM (200/300) cartridges would be worth a look.

The 3009 Series II is a marginal match for the ZU in terms of the resulting resonant frequency which seems to be below the optimum zone. The 3009 S2 improved is too light and is designed for very high compliance MM cartridges - not compatible at all.

One of the better Jelco arms might frankly be a better match for the ZU..

Other cartridges to consider would be the Denon 301, 304 MCs - both relatively regularly available on eBay.. The AT33PTG might be another good alternative, but it is also fairly low compliance and not a match for an S3..

I found that the ZU offered a lot of bang for the buck, but the conical stylus's performance left me unsatisfied - certain records exhibited excessive sibilants, and HF tracking in general was just OK.. I have several elliptical MC on hand including the SPU and a DL-103D, both are considerably better in this regard. The SPU is just better period..

Parts available from jec965 or sq38s on eBay - I have purchased from both with no problems. Schopper is the original supplier to this market, and offers very high quality parts at premium prices - unfortunately I have not been able to purchase any so I cannot attest to their merit.

Note that if you buy one of the many bearing cap upgrades be sure to get one that uses thrust plates, all of those "gun metal" and bronze ones will be unsatisfactory without a steel or nylatron thrust plate for the ball to ride on. (Soft metals will wear and deform quickly) Note also that in many cases a badly thought out bearing cap will make it impossible to adjust the clutch mechanism properly.

[dvh99]

thanks a lot for this elaborate answer.

don`t want to spend 1000usd just to find out the arm and cartridge are a poor match.

which spu cartridge do you use btw, i see all kinds of types spu on the ortofon website.

cheers,

dennis

[kevinkr]

Originally Posted by dvh99

thanks a lot for this elaborate answer.

don`t want to spend 1000usd just to find out the arm and cartridge are a poor match.

which spu cartridge do you use btw, i see all kinds of types spu on the ortofon website.

cheers,

dennis

I use the current SPU GM E MKII which is rather nice.. Note that these cartridges do require arms like the Schick, SME 3012, Series II or one of the Ortofon high mass arms to perform their best. You would be talking an investment north of $3K for something like the set up I am currently using including Lundahl step up transformers, and not including the plinth and TT - which while I feel is completely worthwhile, you may feel differently about. I did it in stages which is the only way I could afford to do so.

What is your budget, there are a lot of very good options out there that don't have to cost a fortune.

Take a look at these: "http://www.jelco-ichikawa.co.jp/e_tone_arm.htm"

Of particular interest are the SA-750E and SA-750L. I would avoid the less expensive 250 series.. The SA-750L with something like the DL-103SA might be a very nice combination as an example, and represents a pretty big step up from the standard DL-103 and its derivatives on an SME 3009...

[dvh99]

i bet that is a nice combo for 3k and up excluding the tt.

take into account that i will have to make myself a phono pre too(john broskie design) and get a step up transformer of course, plus buy a thorens or even a luxman pd444 which is on ebay right now for 1000 euro and get a tonearm plus cartridge and maybe do some restoration, that i will most certainly am looking at 3k or more too.

this all will be done in steps cause i don`t have that kind of cash to spend.

i rather buy the best money can buy instead of going cheaper and replace it with better parts later on and sell the lesser parts at a loss or even worse, be stuck with it.
if this means i will have to wait 6 months before i can play vinyl again, so be it.

cheers,

dennis

[kevinkr]

I had something to listen to most of the time I was scraping my pennies together, but definitely great to get what you want long term if you have the patience to wait..

I do recommend the Schick/SPU combo strongly..

[SkyLounger]

Sorry to brag, but I'm kinda proud of this one.

I don't want to hijack Kevin's thread but wanted to show you guys the result of my restoration.

I bought this tt last winter from an older gentleman who was moving out of his house and into a smaller appartment. The tt was very dirty and not functionning.

Thanks to the help of Kevin and others (The Analog Dept.), I've managed to refurb this tt all by myself, except for the tonearm, which I sent to Alfred Kayser (SME Tonearms in Barrie, ON) for a complete rewire and rebuild.

Things done to the tt:

-motor rebuild
-improved motor suspension installed
-main bearing and thrustplate upgraded
-strobe lamp replaced
-main platter rubber discs upgraded
-new bubble level installed
-completely disassembled, cleaned, relubed and polished

Motor comes to speed in about 2-3 minutes with minute adjustments, platter spins for about 2min40sec. when powered off, completely silent...

Here are some before and after shots:

(don't mind the washer on the headshell...waiting for original lead counterweights )

Thanks for looking!


EDIT: sorry! not able to post pics... maybe too big? will try later.

[fmena]

Nice to hear about your good fortune. I have yet to hit an "audio jackpot" but I am happy with what I have. Hope to see some pictures soon.
Cheers
FM

[kevinkr]

Originally Posted by SkyLounger

<Snip>
EDIT: sorry! not able to post pics... maybe too big? will try later.

You'll need to resize them - I generally resize to 800 x 600 and post them directly to the forum.. Can't wait to see them..

[kevinkr]

The cast iron platter I mentioned in a previous post arrived a couple of days ago, and this morning I picked it up from the post office.. Tonight I will install it and once I have some thoughts will report back..

My biggest concern is that the iron platter may not be fully compatible with the SPU, I've read all sorts of conflicting reports about magnetic attraction between the magnet in MC cartridges to the platter - everything from its a non-issue to it's an absolute disaster.. I don't expect a disaster, but I do expect I might need to slightly adjust the tracking force.

[user510]

Originally Posted by kevinkr

The cast iron platter I mentioned in a previous post arrived a couple of days ago, and this morning I picked it up from the post office.. Tonight I will install it and once I have some thoughts will report back..

My biggest concern is that the iron platter may not be fully compatible with the SPU, I've read all sorts of conflicting reports about magnetic attraction between the magnet in MC cartridges to the platter - everything from its a non-issue to it's an absolute disaster.. I don't expect a disaster, but I do expect I might need to slightly adjust the tracking force.

I should think that if there is some slight attraction between spu and iron flywheel, it should be constant across the arc path of the stylus.

Can you think of any means to determine if in fact there is some pull between the two components?


-Steve