Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 2nd October 2010, 07:10 PM   #21
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Originally Posted by GTHICM View Post
Funny you are going to use slate and hardwood, as that is exactly what I decided to do for plinths for the Thorens and Garrards I have cooking. Slate is definitely excellent for this and I have racks with slate shelves that are very dead.

As I am building such a plinth for my TD124, I can easily make one for you to your design, as slate and tropical hardwoods are inexpensive, as is the labor here. I have a good friend who is a Japan trained furniture maker that can make the plinths. Let me know what you would like to do.
In short, absolutely yes. We'll do this instead of the conical horns we previously talked about. I am sure it will be awesome..
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Old 2nd October 2010, 07:16 PM   #22
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So it may be slightly OT, but why are these considered so good?
As I noted before, I loved mine but thought the whole pinch roller thing was goofy and a step down from belt drive. Little did I know.

What makes the 124 so good?

That is in short what I am trying to figure out, and if indeed it is as good as claimed. (It is extremely well made, better than anything I have seen with the exception of an SME 20 which lives with me.)

I would say the careful engineering, attention to detail, and construction quality play a big role here.

These tables are noted for PRAT and authority, in modern high mass plinths they can also be very quiet..

Let's put it this way I have heard a Fairchild 750 (leather! belt drive) in slate plinth, and a couple of Garrard 301/401s, and I have heard sound comparable to that from nothing less modest than an SME 20/2 so... Some how they all seem to be able to bring you closer to the music, something that the TD-124 allegedly excels at even in comparison to the others. (The Fairchild is beyond amazing in the right plinth, 16" Sheu, and Ortofon SPU) It will be directly compared to the SME 20, so we will see.
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:12 AM   #23
limono is offline limono  United States
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just put my td124 MKI back in service after 4 years in storage .It must be the arm Grace 707 because it sorta sucks. (thats why it went to storage) The rythm and drive may be there but nothing more. rather flat ,two dimmensional presntation with sources occupying the middle of the stage. I don't remember anymore my source of "inspiration" for the plinth ,I think I was drinking way too much of skandinavian vodka at that time
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:25 AM   #24
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just put my td124 MKI back in service after 4 years in storage .It must be the arm Grace 707 because it sorta sucks. (thats why it went to storage) The rythm and drive may be there but nothing more. rather flat ,two dimmensional presntation with sources occupying the middle of the stage. I don't remember anymore my source of "inspiration" for the plinth ,I think I was drinking way too much of skandinavian vodka at that time
Actually a lot of people say the Grace 707 is a good choice for the TD-124, but I have no idea of the veracity of this.. Cartridge choice plays a role here obviously. And my understanding is that a lot of work is required to liberate the TD-124 from its shortcomings.. I have embarked on that path, and plan on a custom slate/hardwood plinth as a major part of the project. Early MKI with the teflon bearing inserts need an upgrade urgently - you might want to check that out.. In any event if you have not serviced the motor, and main bearing this needs to be done before forming an impression.

What about the plinth - solid and heavy?

FWIW I have no idea what I am going to end up with at the end of this road - the journey itself is entertaining enough. The SME 20 will provide a reference.

Devil's advocate, is that a Grado Platinum or Sonata or ? on the Grace? Having lived with a Platinum for a couple of years I would have to say your description of the table's sound might be laid at the feet of that cartridge.. I was almost ready to abandon analog before I acquired a ZU/Denon DL-103 and was rather strongly reminded that all cartridges are not created equal.. Might want to try something else. The Grace might not be synergistic either, but I just don't know for sure..
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:33 AM   #25
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Update: I have finished restoring the SME 3009 Series II arm, however none of the parts for the table proper have arrived yet. I expect it will be several weeks yet - will give me time to recover from the latest computer meltdown. New mobo, Quad core Phenom now on the way..
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:57 AM   #26
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The motor was taken appart and lubricated and silicone gell suspension grommets installed. main bearing had sintered bronze inserts since I got it and the deck spent most of its life unused by the first ownerbut I was taking off the platter so many times I may have had loosen it a bit Plinth is heavy affair CDL baltic birch layers with lead shot chambers and slate pieces glued to the side. Bottom layer of plinth forms an arm with a screw to support and ground the bearing bottom (a la shindo).Grace bearing feels good (but Im no expert) and the wire was replaced with cardas. The carts were grado sonata (bleh), pristine grace f9 MM (sleepy), ADc681 (simple but OK) Benz Ruby H (mismatch but with some promise) Don't get me wrong it sounds nice but nowhere near the cult status in the present state. I need to try RB 1000 from Rega but I don't hold my breath.
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Old 4th October 2010, 05:12 AM   #27
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Sounds like you have done most of, if not all of the things I plan to do to mine. Should be very interesting to see how the RB-1000 performs on this deck.
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Old 4th October 2010, 11:40 AM   #28
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yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by limono View Post
yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards
As long as you are careful reinserting the spindle into the bearing I can't imagine there would be an issue.. However the bearing should be roughly half full of oil, if a bit spills out on insertion that's ok - just remove platter and mop up the mess. It should take a long time for the spindle to sink to the bottom of the bearing well if there is sufficient oil in the bearing, and the platter should not be attached as the bearing seals can blow out if the spindle is forced to descend too quickly. (I support mine actually, a no no, but as I will replace the end cap soon I am not so worried) Mine has only enough oil in it to prevent damage, and will be subjected to a good flush out and replacement oil when I am ready. (20wt turbine oil or 3 in 1 "motor oil" - not the usual hardware store 3 in 1) Replacement bearings are actually reasonably priced compared to spare parts for a lot of newer TT.
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limono View Post
yep , there must be something wrong somewhere in the scheme of things.maybe main bearing has excessive play from too much of "messing around".Maybe the plinth is overdamped and suck the life out of the deck.maybe door knob brass footers are a no no.People sell expensive tables and switch to idlers after hearing them.If there is somebody in Michigan with experience in Thorens department I would not mind lending the deck for a check out.
Here is gray research like tonearm in disguise which the same gentelman was planning on fittting to the deck. I think I should sell it back to Japan and buy a modern arm with proceedings.Regards
I think you would get very good money for it, the only cartridges that this would work well with would be something like the M3D..

SME 3009/3012 and Ortofon RMG212 were common higher end choices back in the old days.. Perhaps the current SME 309 or 310 might be nice choice. I actually conversed recently with someone who has a SME IV on his TD-124, presumably it sounds good. I think a new Sheu might be a good to excellent option as well.
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