Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 30th September 2010, 08:48 PM   #11
wjlamp is offline wjlamp  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Yes, actually I am planning on a bearing plate upgrade as well, there are so many to choose from so I am going to do a little more research, none short of a full bearing replacement are more than about $70 or so, not exactly extremely expensive. (Stainless steel, gun metal, and bronze are all on offer.)

The motor grommets I ordered are silicone gel types ordered on eBay today in fact.

I also ordered silicone gel bushings for the chassis to plinth interface, and will try both with and without them to see what is preferable given the plinth in use.

Long term the plinth will be some sort of CLD type, I have some hope of finding a counter top fabricator that would be willing to make me a slate plinth. Mixed hardwoods are another more realizable option as I can either do that myself or my father in law may be interested in the project..
In the early 80's,Dr,Penfold,in England,made an interesting cast,for a speaker cabinet,by using 50% epoxy resins,40% quartz sand and 10% rubber chips.
There was a full presentation,in the then informative, Hi-Fi News mag
The results,according to the presented measurements,were fascinating.
If you have the means to make a cast,chances are that you 'll hit the spot,of making your plinth.You can dress it later,with anything you like it.

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Old 1st October 2010, 05:46 PM   #12
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Originally Posted by cactuscowboy View Post
Nice find! I've never seen a used Thorens during years of digging at yard sales and thrifts, but I keep looking.

Have fun with the project.
I've been waiting a long time for this one, and consider myself lucky to have it. There is always a certain amount of shipping risk with items purchased on eBay and shipped long distances. The going price on eBay these days is a lot higher than what most brokers pay for them. I paid considerably more than local brokers pay, but much less than what they often resell for on eBay.. Overall this thing is going to be quite expensive.. And they should be properly serviced/restored prior to being pressed back into use to avoid damage to expensive and difficult to replace parts like the motor and the spindle..
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Old 1st October 2010, 05:51 PM   #13
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Originally Posted by wjlamp View Post
In the early 80's,Dr,Penfold,in England,made an interesting cast,for a speaker cabinet,by using 50% epoxy resins,40% quartz sand and 10% rubber chips.
There was a full presentation,in the then informative, Hi-Fi News mag
The results,according to the presented measurements,were fascinating.
If you have the means to make a cast,chances are that you 'll hit the spot,of making your plinth.You can dress it later,with anything you like it.

B.L
I vaguely remember reading this article and being impressed with the results, unfortunately casting things of this nature and size is a bit beyond my resources at the moment.

I will probably end up iterating through a couple of progressively better plinths, the first will be similar to a typical Ortofon furnished plinth, the one I hope to build will be a combination of slate top with dense tropical hardwood base..
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Old 1st October 2010, 05:59 PM   #14
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Have you noticed that many users of the 124 seem to skip using the isolating rubber "ball" under the levelling screws on the edges of the plinth. Will you be doing that or is a "modern ...spongy rubber spacer" good enough ? Or will it sit directly on the plinth surface .

I was considering using multiple layers of 19 mm MDF with either a veneered or painted surface finish. Not quite sure if that is good enough. I could get a granite/slate top surface if it's beneficial ! Wouldn't this have a poor performance compared to MDF with more internal losses ?
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Old 1st October 2010, 06:47 PM   #15
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Have you noticed that many users of the 124 seem to skip using the isolating rubber "ball" under the levelling screws on the edges of the plinth. Will you be doing that or is a "modern ...spongy rubber spacer" good enough ? Or will it sit directly on the plinth surface .

I was considering using multiple layers of 19 mm MDF with either a veneered or painted surface finish. Not quite sure if that is good enough. I could get a granite/slate top surface if it's beneficial ! Wouldn't this have a poor performance compared to MDF with more internal losses ?
Yes, and in fact I plan to try a number of different plinth approaches both with and without the "improved" bushings. So I will try it directly on a high mass plinth, and with the bushings, and also on a lighter weight plinth I will have shortly.

My understanding is that slate offers the highest loss to mass ratio of any commonly used plinth material, far better than MDF.. I am considering the purchase or construction of a CLD plinth if I cannot afford the slate one I have talked about. I have heard comparable slate and mdf plinths, and IMHO slate wins every time. Note that granite is not good - it rings! Slate or nothing natural IMHO..
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Old 1st October 2010, 07:14 PM   #16
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Yes granite rings certainly. I have some granite slabs of about the right size. However when glued to MDF it should dampen the Q. Additionally if we use a suitable foam rubber between the metal chassis and the hard granite it might help even more . What say.......?
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Old 1st October 2010, 08:41 PM   #17
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Old 1st October 2010, 09:03 PM   #18
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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So it may be slightly OT, but why are these considered so good?
As I noted before, I loved mine but thought the whole pinch roller thing was goofy and a step down from belt drive. Little did I know.

What makes the 124 so good?
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Old 2nd October 2010, 03:06 PM   #19
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Default Slate and Wood Plinths

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Yes, and in fact I plan to try a number of different plinth approaches both with and without the "improved" bushings. So I will try it directly on a high mass plinth, and with the bushings, and also on a lighter weight plinth I will have shortly.

My understanding is that slate offers the highest loss to mass ratio of any commonly used plinth material, far better than MDF.. I am considering the purchase or construction of a CLD plinth if I cannot afford the slate one I have talked about. I have heard comparable slate and mdf plinths, and IMHO slate wins every time. Note that granite is not good - it rings! Slate or nothing natural IMHO..
Funny you are going to use slate and hardwood, as that is exactly what I decided to do for plinths for the Thorens and Garrards I have cooking. Slate is definitely excellent for this and I have racks with slate shelves that are very dead.

As I am building such a plinth for my TD124, I can easily make one for you to your design, as slate and tropical hardwoods are inexpensive, as is the labor here. I have a good friend who is a Japan trained furniture maker that can make the plinths. Let me know what you would like to do.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 08:09 PM   #20
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashok View Post
Yes granite rings certainly. I have some granite slabs of about the right size. However when glued to MDF it should dampen the Q. Additionally if we use a suitable foam rubber between the metal chassis and the hard granite it might help even more . What say.......?
I'm not sure as I have no direct experience, but know people who definitely do, and they have indicated that granite in their experience is not suitable even in a CLD construction. I have not heard the said combination, but very much respect the people who told me this as I know they are more knowledgeable in this area than I..

Given this I guess it depends on how handy you are, how risk adverse, and how much it costs to machine the granite to receive your TD-124 - for me this is the most expensive part so I will use the material I am told is most likely to lead to the results I am looking for - and I have heard several TT in various plinths, and the ones incorporating a lot of slate in their construction just seem to enhance a given units performance - much quieter, blacker background, more incisive and detailed sound, etc.. It didn't seem that subtle. I suspect spectrum analysis would reveal that the mechanical noise floor of the TT in a slate plinth is significantly improved, and that noise in the vicinity of the tone arm mounts is much lower..
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