my latest iteration of "Nanook's 219 tonearm".. - Page 67 - diyAudio
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Old 11th March 2014, 10:02 PM   #661
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Now that's what these forums CAN be about...

...and almost always are-the sharing of ideas and comments. I've met very few of the forum participants in "real" life but every single one of them have been great folks seeking their version of the truth (about 20 or so, mainly at planet10's DIY 'fest held annually on Vancouver Island). Not everybody is a mechanical type (that's me ), some are loudspeaker gurus (Dave et al) or amplifier people (Greg the Geek). Funny thing is that I've never encountered a DIY digital guy out there, but I have that somewhat covered (Mike damuffin).

canzid: I'm sure Morton would appreciate the arrow shaft. Maybe you could drill and cut the shaft for him too (if you could do that I'd greatly appreciate it). Any pictures of your arm? Don't worry too much about a hanging weight. It is so easy to do.

Here's how I do it:
  • get a scap of dowel that is slightly larger than the hole in the existing counter-weight
  • the dowel needs to be about 1/2" longer than the existing counter-weight
  • whittle down a taper into the dowel, ensuring that the small diameter side can fit into the counter-weight hole
  • once you see what the diameter needs to be, whittle the dowel to that dimension, except the last 1/8" or so. This will hold the weight and the dowel together using gravity.
  • you should have about 1'4" to 3/8" extending from the top of the counter-weight.
  • drill a small hole through the dowel laterally
  • all that's left is to tie some thin wire, string or strong thread to the dowel through the hole and the arm. I just knot the string /wire/thread together once and leave the loop large to make it easy to put on the arm. done.
  • Some tape or heat shrink can create a spot to allow the string to grip the arm tube. If wanting azimuth to be easily adjustable, instead of just using a loop, make a small slip knot (it will frustrate you) so that there is at least 1/4" between the tonearm and the dowel. Then just twist the knot on the arm to adjust azimuth
  • If using a loop, 2 O-rings can be used to locate the counter-weight. That's all...

Regarding "outriggers" I don't really use them on the arm. This can be over-kill. I prefer a "Longhorn" mod (essentially an outrigger for your cartridge) for my cartridge. I suppose something similar could be accomplished by attaching some very thin threaded rod and 4 nuts. This would provide the benefits of a finely tuneable azimuth and some of the benefits of the Longhorn modification in one shot. would do it.
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Old 12th March 2014, 05:55 AM   #662
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default living the dream...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffything View Post
Stew you are an audio Snob!!!

Nah not really Your willingness to help others, your sharing of ideas and your knowledge of the subject stands you out as one of the good guys on this here forum.

As for the value of your arm I'd say double your money sell it for five bucks and live the dream.

I'm not helping here am I?
Hey Squiffy,

how are things? Ya, double the money . No worries, my snob persona will allow me to ignore whatever I choose to
To do a proper job with all new materials and bespoke wiring and RCA plugs the costs can get out of hand pretty quickly. 20' of whatever tonearm cable, 2 good (but perhaps not "great") RCA plugs, good cartridge tags, and if using a purchased (wood) headshell the sky is the limit. And don't get me started on the high cost of tonearm lifts, etc.

If I can get set up to make the headshells then life would be a lot easier. I could then set a reasonable price for the headshells.
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Old 12th March 2014, 05:33 PM   #663
Jay1234 is offline Jay1234  United Kingdom
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Stew, I don't know if you've considered the Henry Ford concept of doing things, for the 219 using mass production techniques, lets say for the headshell, use a multi jig & pillar drill to get bits of wood to the size & shape of your choice ! Its surprising just what you can do in this manner. If you recall the wooden headshell I made for my 219, the smooth curves were done in this manner.
Its much easier to make say 6 headshels all the same, using simple jigs to do one side or shape at a time, than trying to to make 6 individual ones.
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Old 12th March 2014, 07:31 PM   #664
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Henry Ford methods...

...certainly come to mind (but he was an absolute brute and a thief as well: Henry Ford II redesigned the Model T into what became the model A, but was never credited with the design or the work he did. Henry Ford passed all the work off as his own). I have higher standards than Henry Ford regarding credit where it is due.

Jay, my schooling is in manufacturing process technology, so as a minimum batch processing is a must to maximize my own productivity. This is why I was wanting to get involved with Kickstarter. Any funds raised would help set up a bespoke shop with the required tools to allow consistent batch processing (particularly of the headshells, but even for something as simple as drilling the arm tubes).
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Old 12th March 2014, 08:29 PM   #665
Jay1234 is offline Jay1234  United Kingdom
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We didn't learn about Ford 11 at school in England....otherwise.

I have worked with people with learning / physical difficulties etc, In a workshop environment & using straight forward Jigs that I made from MDF, bits of Ali & simple clamps, i.e. very simple tools, (a pillar drill can be used in all sorts of ways with the right kind of Jigging) It was possible to manufacture all manner of items in a very cost effective way.
Sometimes a step back in terms of manufacturing technology can let you make a good start.
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Old 13th March 2014, 04:06 AM   #666
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default using jigging

The use of jigs is but one of several steps to help eliminate sample to sample variance. Another is the use of consistent high quality materials. In the case of the 219, this is covered by the use of a reputable manufacturer's (Easton's) arrow shafts, great quality male bearings (super fine ball point pen "nibs"), good mechanical connectors soldered correctly, good wiring and good wiring termination. The use of aluminum is a personal one, and not based on sonics. I still have issues with folks cutting carbon-fibre and the possible toxic effects the dust can have on one's lungs. And although I've never tested it, I do like the sound of wooden headshells (I know I may not be able to hear the difference, but I like to think that somehow it helps the sound of the music that comes from the tt/tonearm/cartridge mechanical system sound more natural). So pretty basic thoughts about the materials.

Once the material considerations and availability and suitability of the materials has been taken into account, the rest is in implementation and care in putting the things together. So jigging helps with quality cutting and fabrication of the materials into useable parts and ultimately in assemblies. So no real magic there

Rather than take much more "virtual ink" for this discussion about the use of jigs, I'd like to concentrate on the personal experiences of the folks who want to build one of these stupid, simple tonearms and those of the folks who have constructed their own arms and their listening experiences.
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Old 13th March 2014, 03:43 PM   #667
canzld is offline canzld  Canada
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Default another canadian 219

"I'm sure Morton would appreciate the arrow shaft. Maybe you could drill and cut the shaft for him too (if you could do that I'd greatly appreciate it). Any pictures of your arm?"

My 219.

XX75 shaft. Ballpoint pen bearing into a notch I punched inside the arrow shaft after drilling a hole for the pivot. Mouse wire. Regular cartridge tags. Thorens arm counterweight and Gates tonearm base, because I happened to have them lying around. Headshell is wood glued onto a metal bracket i found in the hardware store - pressure fit around the arrow shaft, although I should epoxy it. Might glue a strip of wood at 90 degrees on top of the headshell to minimize any potential flex (one day- lol).
Reclaimed items: wood, pen, mouse wire. Most expensive item - the arrow, since i had to buy a pack of several. A couple of $ for the tags, and a few for a hanging counterweight (a heavy metal cog form a surplus store, but currently sitting on the shelf) So perhaps not quite $2.19, maybe $10.

Arm: mounting distance 290 mm, 15mm overhang, 19 degree offset. Current cartridge Stanton 681eee, previously had a Stanton 500. Works like a charm.
The arm oscillates slightly at first when placed on the vinyl (TT off), but is easily stilled and shows no sign of this once the TT is going (McCurdy gets to speed in 1/4 of a turn)

Mortron has already picked up the arrow shafts and is borrowing my pipe cutter, but otherwise he is far better at DIY than me, so I will leave him to it.
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Old 13th March 2014, 09:05 PM   #668
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default nice arm canzid!

canzid et al:
Quote:
My 219.

XX75 shaft. Ballpoint pen bearing into a notch I punched inside the arrow shaft after drilling a hole for the pivot. Mouse wire. Regular cartridge tags. Thorens arm counterweight and Gates tonearm base, because I happened to have them lying around. Headshell is wood glued onto a metal bracket i found in the hardware store - pressure fit around the arrow shaft, although I should epoxy it. Might glue a strip of wood at 90 degrees on top of the headshell to minimize any potential flex (one day- lol).
Reclaimed items: wood, pen, mouse wire. Most expensive item - the arrow, since i had to buy a pack of several. A couple of $ for the tags, and a few for a hanging counterweight (a heavy metal cog form a surplus store, but currently sitting on the shelf) So perhaps not quite $2.19, maybe $10.
Well, I'm able to purchase shafts as singles locally. I've looked at using what I think are respectable parts (cartridge tags, RCA plugs, internal wiring, etc.), and wiring in a length suitable for a continuous piece from cartridge tags to RCA input on a preamp/phono stage (so 5 X 4 ft. as a minimum length). These parts are from an "approved audiophile" source and include Cardas tags, Neutrik spring loaded RCA plugs and an unbranded 44 awg X 7 (36 awg equivalent) silver plated copper Teflon covered tonearm wire. So the wiring is the single most expensive portion of the tonearm. $80-$100...depending on tonearm wire and connectors. That's without any headshell. Spend as much as you like...I figure that if I were to sell them following common practices, they'd sell for about $500 with a headshell. That should include a tonearm mount and an arm lift. (arm lifts are expensive!).

I'm going to follow audiostar's suggestion and put a single arm up for sale in Vendor's Bizarre or Swap Meet. A base (with a tonearm rest but no cueing/lift), the bearing, headshell, wiring...ready to mount on the turntable of your choice. Good basic RCA plugs (speakercraft)

I do like the canzid headshell

Quote:
Arm: mounting distance 290 mm, 15mm overhang, 19 degree offset. Current cartridge Stanton 681eee, previously had a Stanton 500. Works like a charm.
The arm oscillates slightly at first when placed on the vinyl (TT off), but is easily stilled and shows no sign of this once the TT is going (McCurdy gets to speed in 1/4 of a turn)
The slight oscillation is usually due to actually placing the stylus tip on the LP surface. No matter how careful you are, it's impossible to get it perfect. Even using a mechanical tonearm lift, the same thing usually happens. Regarding any with resonance issues, the use of small cork plugs at one end or the other (or both) of the arm shaft increases mass, but can also act as mechanical damping material.

Quote:
Mortron has already picked up the arrow shafts and is borrowing my pipe cutter, but otherwise he is far better at DIY than me, so I will leave him to it.
Great to hear. I was unsure of his capabilities. And meeting folks face to face is always a treat in this rather solitary hobby.
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Old 17th March 2014, 01:04 PM   #669
pde2000 is offline pde2000  United Kingdom
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Default hanging weight

have upgraded the counterbalance weight using the arm rest from the lenco and some gaffa tape. I believe I perceive an improvement.

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Old 17th March 2014, 07:38 PM   #670
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default hung weights...

pde2000,
QUOTE]have upgraded the counterbalance weight using the arm rest from the lenco and some gaffa tape. I believe I perceive an improvement./QUOTE]

Sometimes it is difficult to perceive improvements, mainly because we do them (or make the thing we're listening to. So far most who have tried the 219 and any "improvements" like hanging the counter-weight have agreed with me, so perhaps I too should learn to trust my ears .
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