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Old 10th November 2013, 06:24 PM   #581
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffything View Post
Looking good Turbon, how is it playing?
Better than I expected. Some resonances but the geometry wasn't right during the test. Will test again tomorrow.

Brgds
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Old 10th November 2013, 08:41 PM   #582
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default hat are you using for the arm wand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbon View Post
Ok, my proof of concept is done. It works.
Next iteration will be a more rigid build.
Brgds
Turbon: the tubing looks like it is very thick wall. If possible, try for an arrow shaft, they're much thinner wall (therefore much lighter) and very stiff. When playing the bottom edge of the cartridge (and usually the arm) should be near parallel to the surface of the record. The VTA would then be close.

Squiffything: I watched the videos, looked good, although a little "odd". Found a video for a 30 ft tonearm. That is just a little too long...

Gijsch: just remember to do whatever must be done to get the height of the pivot "in the ball park" to allow for an initial VTA setting. So put the base on a block of wood or something (thin shims, etc).

Jay1234: A ridge cut into a long dowel can work, then just use a few O-rings to hold the wire in there (or glue or whatever you wish...rubber cement would work and allow the removal of the wire if you decide to rewire it.

All: With regards to adjusting VTA, I think Gijsch has it about right. On a 9" arm once the initial VTA is set, you should only have to adjust the pivot +0.010", -0.005" to dial the arm in for various record thicknesses. So if wanting a "set it and forget it" option, a gross adjustment should be available. With the 219, with its 307mm effective length, you may need adjustments of +0.015, -0.0065
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Old 10th November 2013, 10:40 PM   #583
Gijsch is offline Gijsch  Netherlands
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a few more pictures

Click the image to open in full size.
a little better look at te base with vta adjustment. Thumbscrew has a 6 mm thread, locknut is needed for a solid construction. I ve got about 10 mm of adjustment range, so way more than needed. Just hope the adjustment will not be too coarse.

Click the image to open in full size.
headshell.
rather heavy in comparison to the armwand, but wanted to stay with brass.
Effective mass is 15 grammes for this 10" arm, should fit my cartridge quite nice.
Not sure yet if I will try to keep the wires inside the wand, or fix them to the outside with a few O-rings
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Old 11th November 2013, 03:43 AM   #584
sled108 is offline sled108  United States
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Sorry to Jump In...But, I Liked Stew's thoughts on a Straight HeadShell...Needle to Pivot...So, I just made One...
Damn...These are Easy to Make...And, it Sounds Great and Balances Naturally.
TT Spindle to Tone Arm Pivot; 10"...Pivot to Needle 10 5/8"...21 Deg Angle..

Click the image to open in full size.
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File Type: jpg Straight HeadShell.JPG (104.8 KB, 235 views)

Last edited by sled108; 11th November 2013 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 11th November 2013, 05:26 AM   #585
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Got geometry set so no more resonances as I had yesterday. It's quite amazing how good it sounds. :-). Yes, the walls are quite thick on this carbon tube but that was what I had at hand and this is just a test to learn from. The arrows - how thick are the walls on them?
I found 8mm od / 7.1mm id Al tubing - weight 26.67g/m. Does the arrows have thinner walls? I also found carbon tube 8mm od / 7mm id - weight 22g/m.

I will probably go for the al even if it is heavier.

Nice photos of the base and headshells! Very tidy.

Brgds
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Last edited by Turbon; 11th November 2013 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 11th November 2013, 06:51 AM   #586
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default mass of my iteration.

Guys: a 360 mm (14.173") length of the arrow shafts that I am using weighs in at 12.4 g, so a little heavier than what is being suggested, but the OD is 9.35 mm or about .3681" (so 1.35mm larger OD). The wall thickness is .4318 mm or 0.017". The larger diameter allows a thinner wall for a given strength. I think the stiffness to weight ratio is appropriate, and I suspect that the 8mm carbon fibre will be similarly stiff but approximately 50% lighter. The 8mm aluminium tubing will be about 20% lighter, but without a specification of exactly what alloy (eg 7075, 7071) and what temper is used (eg: T6, T7, T9) there is no reason to believe that it will be stronger (the 7075-T9 arrow shafts have an ultimate strength of 96ksi). 7000 series aluminium alloys are typically the highest strength of any aluminium alloy. Unsure of carbon fibre's physical properties, other than it is very light.

sled:
Quote:
Sorry to Jump In...But, I Liked Stew's thoughts on a Straight HeadShell...Needle to Pivot...So, I just made One...
Damn...These are Easy to Make...And, it Sounds Great and Balances Naturally.
TT Spindle to Tone Arm Pivot; 10"...Pivot to Needle 10 5/8"...21 Deg Angle..
no need for apologies. As I have no wood working machines , nor any skill, I will take your word for it. I might suggest that the inside screw hole be created in an arc to allow for easier alignment. I'll just continue with my hacked together stuff until I complete all the details to my satisfaction. Your headshell looks great by the way.

Turbon: Great to hear that all the resonances worked out. Pretty amazing for such a little investment .

Gijsch: Don't get too worried about a little more mass at the headshell. Actually a slightly heavier headshell does have some benefits: the cartridge will stabilize laterally and be much more difficult to upset.

All: Again I must compliment the builders who have posted their builds , they have way more skill than I do. Keep up the great work guys.
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Old 11th November 2013, 06:57 AM   #587
Gijsch is offline Gijsch  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1234 View Post
Though to be fair the added weight at that point (directly below the pivot point ) could be of benefit to overall stability.......Any thoughts about this?

Nice idea for VTA, can you post a pic of the thumb screw..without arm tube in the way lol
I'd like to incorporate something like that myself providing it can be made quite solid.

Jay
I guess the added mass is so small here that it would not affect the stability at all. Maybe a gramme for the bearing cup?
The VTA thumbscrew is really stable, once the locknut is tightened down. The adjustment might be too coarse, but this was what I had at hand.

Nanook, I guess it's a nice collaboration then. Your ideas, our hands. You made it seem so simple to build this arm that quite a few people took the bait. I Guess that's just one of your qualities :-)
Thanks a lot for getting me into this fun!

Last edited by Gijsch; 11th November 2013 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 11th November 2013, 07:41 AM   #588
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijsch View Post
I guess the added mass is so small here that it would not affect the stability at all. Maybe a gramme for the bearing cup?
The VTA thumbscrew is really stable, once the locknut is tightened down. The adjustment might be too coarse, but this was what I had at hand.
Gijsch - it won't be to coarse. An M6 will rise 1mm for each turn so quarter of a turn will elevate the pivot 0,25mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijsch View Post
Nanook, I guess it's a nice collaboration then. Your ideas, our hands. You made it seem so simple to build this arm that quite a few people took the bait. I Guess that's just one of your qualities :-)
Thanks a lot for getting me into this fun!
Hear hear

Nanook - Easton Jazz 7075 aluminium - are these good enough?

Brgds
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Last edited by Turbon; 11th November 2013 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 11th November 2013, 11:42 PM   #589
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Sorry if a little long. Continuing developments.

folks,

I have been "classified" as an innovator (not a creator) by many that know me as being able to see through clutter and get to the point (so to speak). Some find that in itself abrasive, hence any apologies that have been expressed by myself on this thread.

Turbon: Yes! Easton Jazz arrow shafts are more than adequate. Just remember that the larger the diameter, the stiffer the shaft for a given wall thickness (unless using some sort of super exotic material). The shafts that I use are XX75 "Gamegetter" hunting arrows. They are inexpensive (cannot remember the price when I bought the ones I have, but the archery range suggested they were perhaps the best buy).

Gijsch:
Quote:
Nanook, I guess it's a nice collaboration then. Your ideas, our hands. You made it seem so simple to build this arm that quite a few people took the bait. I Guess that's just one of your qualities :-)
Thanks a lot for getting me into this fun!
Hope this doesn't become an overly distracting obsession for any. Up until recently, few took the bait. Perhaps under 20 people or so. That includes those that have recently posted and those that have shown interest: Jay, Turbon, Gijsch, sled108, Squiffything, Chris, hajj, a.wayne, Helmuth, laiphroaig, et al. I guess I thought that if I could build a satisfying results using nothing but a Dremel tool, an allen key, a small hand saw, and a pipe cutter, then others could too. A file is handy, but I think that pretty much is the complete list of tools that I used to create the first one.

Once, I had a phone conversation with one of the guys from Sumiko (or was it Spiral Groove?). He suggested that the most difficult thing to do in audio was to find a manufacturer who would build an item to the exact specs, without trying to put their own twist on it (as in change the design, etc). He suggested design was much easier to do. Thus I have decided that DIY and "cottage" manufacturing in my home is most likely the result. Obviously DIY for the folks here, and the "cottage" manufacturing for any commercial version that is to be offered.

One thing that I truly believe in is "but right, sell at a reasonable price". An old boss of mine (thanks Martin) taught me that you make money when you buy, not when you sell. So things like trying to purchase in large enough quantities to gain some sort of discount, or rather than purchasing Parker ball point pen refills, perhaps seek out another similar, yet suitable brands could very well occur, but the base specifications will remain without any changes.

Outside costs are the only thing that I have little or no control over other than that. For example, if I prefer Easton 2317 shafts, but can get 2217s as a "special, guess what. I'll build arms using 2217, and deal with any changes due to that. Now if I can wholesale say 10 dozen 2317s I can completely standardize the tonearms, which would be ( in a manufacturing sense) the goal. Any changes after that would have to consider this.

Now for any that have expressed interest in helping out via machining, etc., I will definitely have a look and hope that I could make use of the kind offers. Kickstarter is the place to be for crowd sourced funding and whole reason for that is to allow me to invest in machinery to streamline the manufacturing process and increase consistency in the end product. The last pieces to the puzzle are ergonomic and aesthetic in nature. Of course there might be economies of scale, but the least of the issues for the arms themselves is economic. As I have suggested, buying an arm lift is easily the most expensive part on these arms in terms or purchasing. I am going to devise my own. It may not be operationally smooth, but should do the job. I've posted elsewhere on diyAudio regarding how simple a arm lift can be (similar to what ChrisG had posted). Simple. Mechanically as sophisticated as a hammer, but useable.

Please note that should any ideas from the thread be used (eg: alternate headshells other than the Scheu, my original wooden types, or the offset type with the stylus point inline with the centre of the arm as sled108 had so beautifully built ), permission will be asked for use, and credit will be given.

Once I have the arm where I think I have all of the correct pieces together is when I will offer it on Kickstarter, with rewards of headshells, arm "kits" (an arm tube, the female bearing installed and the pivot), and complete arms. It may be that some who have offered could support me by providing parts as they had suggested, or limited edition headshells (again as some have suggested) or whatever they feel they can contribute. I would consider that as a "donation in kind" to any that chose to do so.

Then just wait a little while.

Many may or may not know that I have reviewed audio gear in the past and would like to continue with that. I had outlined what I think constitutes a good turntable design and had written this opinion in Affordable$$Audio. If I can find the issue I'll post it in this thread , and perhaps start a "splinter" thread regarding that. If successful, I'll do the same for a turntable (design is complete). It may require me purchasing parts from some folks that already make them, but (sorry to beat a dead dog here) with my own take on turntable design. The other option would be to modify an existing table with suitable components into something much more than what the parts might suggest (as exemplified by the various Lenco, Rega and Linn rebuilds and custom parts now being offered). Again, this thread would not be an exercise in democracy, but open to comments, discussions and arguments ( as a debate argument, not an attack or anything like that).

Lastly, thus far the new job hasn't started. I think the fellow was just BS'ing me, so I feel I must do something to keep busy. Thus the Kickstarter project and continued refinement of the 219 are to be pushed to the forefront of my pursuits, regardless of any potential employment.
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Old 11th November 2013, 11:49 PM   #590
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default sled's headshell

sled:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sled108 View Post
Sorry to Jump In...But, I Liked Stew's thoughts on a Straight HeadShell...Needle to Pivot...So, I just made One...
Damn...These are Easy to Make...And, it Sounds Great and Balances Naturally.
TT Spindle to Tone Arm Pivot; 10"...Pivot to Needle 10 5/8"...21 Deg Angle..
Was the "Damn...These are Easy to Make" reference to the headshell, the arm, or both? In any possible Kickstarter offering I was thinking that a 10.5" arm would be a nice compromise between length (and therefore superior tracking error) and convenience regarding the retro-fit to existing turntables. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
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