2N2222A phono preamp

Sonidos

I returned from Brownville, Tx, attending my son's wedding this morning. A beauty daughter-inlaw and a huge wedding bill. Next time, my son will go the JP and get married. No more money from the "old man".

Three strikes, it is time to talk to Scott. His great wisdom from the Mass State, is something my son may need.

1. There are newer transistor designs on the market. But one will have to try them to see if they are a good fit.

But I would like to say something if I may.

Two days ago, I was told that I had to return the R&D equipment given to me 12 years ago. So I was looking for a function generator, and decided to make my own, since I know I could do a better job. One of the things I did not want to do, was to use the XR2206. It is good, and I have used it before and produced some outstanding items. But I wanted to use ICL8038 or Max038 because people talked about them.

They are no longer available.

So, I am back to the XR2206. Why? Because even thou it is a very old design. It is good. The Max038 and ICL8038. They had problems. So I am using the XR2206 as the center point of the design, with a video amp ic to take me into the high mhz range.

2. I went on eBay today and purchase two Oscopes. I have other test equipment. I purchase a BK and a Bell and Howell. Total cost with shipping $115.00 dollars.

3. Also on eBay, I purchased 360 sq in of 1/32 copper clad board, only $10.00 dollars. for the new Class A 30watt hybrid mostfet power amp, that I designed in Texas, as I baked in that hot Texas sun, drinking gallons of ice tea.

I own three oil wells in Texas, in Live Oak County, near Three Rivers, Texas. One of the new policeman, gave me a ticket for driving on my property. I gave it to my attorney.

I would love to hear what you got to say about your unit when it is finish.
And also about any tweaks that you do to it.

On eBay, they a have beautiful little digital scope for $85.00 dollars. A honey of thing, but I am old school and I prefer the old stuff.


Take Care

Ivey
 
Last edited:
Thats cool, but I didn't get the impression that he was calling it a "breakthrough". Merely a good learning/building block.

I think the point is that nothing in the circuit depends on the "special" qualities of a 2N2222. It doesn't have any, except that it is a very good all rounder work-horse.

There are dozens of transistors which would do a better job in terms of noise.
 
Cliff

Yea.., you are right, it is an all round work horse of a transistor, similar to the BC107A.

But believe it or not, the 2N2222A is a very quite fellow @ a max 4db. Pretty good for a 50 year old.

Just returned from Texas, from attending and paying for my son's wedding. I will be turning over the family business to my two sons on Passover this month. I am too old to continue to head and handle things as before.

Managing a business is not like it use to be, when I was younger. And besides the pressure of labor contracts, materials, and equipment overhead, plus being worried about being ripped off from all directions, has taken its toll on me. And my God! Lets not forget the Government and their bloody taxes.

I received the business after my father's death in 1988. Then my brother passed away in 2003, leaving me to run it by myself. And with my daughter being murdered in 2006. The emotional roller coaster just killed my health and my overall out look of things. Not to forget the Wall Street boys of 2008, digging in your pockets for all the pennies that they can steal.

I got the information on the MPS404. I got to figure away to get it to you on the site. I have a scanner, I will look into using it for that purpose.

Before I took over the family business in 1988, I worked for others. I was given loads of R & D equipment to carry on my work by the firm. But my friend at the firm that I was once employed with, passed away at work. Heart attack. So this guy Jerry, who is a foe of me, got the board to remove my grant, and requested that I return everything.

No problem, I have lots of funds these days, not like before. So I went to the local electronics store to purchase new things. My god Cliff, all those buttons and digital computer interface items etc. etc. Just threw me for a loop.

So, I got on eBay and purchase the equipment I grew up with. No problem, it will all be here in a day or so. I can not believe I became afraid of re-education. Or maybe I am just brain lazy.

I will be leaving my upper social life behind, and just kick it with the guys I went to college with. Well, those of us that are left. These upper social guys keep trying to get me to invest in a huge boat. Do they know what the word boat stands for. Break Out Another Thousand. Those things are expensive to buy and to maintain.

Take Care


Ivey
 
Last edited:
I am one of the guys who Ivey is helping out. He is a class act off this board as well as on. I have spoken to him via telephone, and could tell right away that he is a very smart guy, with a load of experience in many different areas. I enjoyed speaking with him.
my point is..
There are several guys(like me) who are learning a great deal here... .as you know..when it comes to audio...science doesnt explain everything. oftentimes it is at a loss..MOST Of the time even. We are talking about preferences here. Who cares about EIN statistics or newer chips or whatever the hell??If you have a "better" design, well by all means, go flog the damn thing somewhere else. this thread is about IVEY's design. Start your own damn thread.
I trust Ivey (again who has been doing this for a LONG time) a great deal.. So... Respect your elders....and please, for the benefit of everyone...

if you can't say something nice, then kindly keep your *((@# mouth shut.

thanks.

that whole "how can you take this seriously" comment... it really pissed me off. What a ****. I hope Wurcey makes good on his vow to cease participation.
 
Last edited:
Member
Joined 2007
Paid Member
Hi ncdrawl

ncdrawl,

Are you the same that posts on Stereophile? If so, glad to see you here. I got tired about reading equipment reviews and decided to build my own.

Are you going to build this circuit? Can you tell us what project you are doing with Ivey?

As I mentioned to him, I've got the parts, but finding the time to build this has been hard. But I've got my fingers crossed that I can start soon. First with the psu and then with the phono preamp itself.

Again, I'll stick to the schematic, then see how it is affected by component changes, primarily transistors. I would be quite pleased if it replaces my $1000 Mistral phone pre.
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2004
I am one of the guys who Ivey is helping out. He is a class act off this board as well as on. I have spoken to him via telephone, and could tell right away that he is a very smart guy, with a load of experience in many different areas. I enjoyed speaking with him.
my point is..
There are several guys(like me) who are learning a great deal here... .as you know..when it comes to audio...science doesnt explain everything. oftentimes it is at a loss..MOST Of the time even. We are talking about preferences here. Who cares about EIN statistics or newer chips or whatever the hell??If you have a "better" design, well by all means, go flog the damn thing somewhere else. this thread is about IVEY's design. Start your own damn thread.
I trust Ivey (again who has been doing this for a LONG time) a great deal.. So... Respect your elders....and please, for the benefit of everyone...

if you can't say something nice, then kindly keep your *((@# mouth shut.

thanks.

that whole "how can you take this seriously" comment... it really pissed me off. What a ****. I hope Wurcey makes good on his vow to cease participation.

I’m sorry you felt compelled to post such a negative comment. I thought I was commenting on ideas not the person. The statement that the 2N2222 was the 2222’nd batch of some device is so stupid I honestly though this whole thing was a put-on. I have worked in this industry for 36 yr. and I guarantee that statement is wrong. So peace, I will not invade your space again. No one spells my name right, just no respect. Only four stars at least you could call me an *******.
 

iko

Ex-Moderator
Joined 2008
I received the business after my father's death in 1988. Then my brother passed away in 2003, leaving me to run it by myself. And with my daughter being murdered in 2006. The emotional roller coaster just killed my health and my overall out look of things. Not to forget the Wall Street boys of 2008, digging in your pockets for all the pennies that they can steal.

Very, very sorry to hear about your daughter. Can't imagine anything more painful for a parent.
 
IMHO, the 2N2222 is a wonderful part, regardless of its age. It's still one of the first small signal transistors I grab for most purposes. This reminds me of my old Ace Audio preamp from the mid '70s. If I remember right, it used 2, maybe 3 transistors for the RIAA section, and a simple output board. They offered the "zero distortion" version, which was nothing more than eliminating the output board entirely. No idea what the specs were for the RIAA section, but the sound was excellent. If I can find the schematic (50% chance) I'll post the transistor types just FYI.

Best,
Conrad
 
Here's the old Ace circuit:
AA_phono.jpg


I changed my output cap to 10uF/50V, the 6.8K to 12K and the 12K to 10K, probably for the zero distortion mod. Their addendum listed a couple of other changes as well.

CH
 
Times are hard, and we can not punish those responsible

To all my friends and fellow members:

Words are our defense, a weapon to hurt those, that we can not kill. We strike out because of fear, pain, and because we can not handle the truth.

We all suffer from some form of social ill, be it lost love, loneliness, being poor, or ignored. But we are all one race. Human. There is no other race. There are many creeds, but only one race. And we must live together or perish. And that in its self is a challenge.

We find a common togetherness in electronics, audio, and other likes and dislikes. And thou we grow old. We will always be children in our behavior. Because it is our avenue to escape.

Those who argue and fight or even disagree, are healthy in their minds. Give them what they need, the space to express themselves. Because some persons, can not express themselves without anger.

We must and will find common ground. Be it sand or Stone

Yes, the 2N2222A rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can pull it and place in thousands of circuits and it will work. If you are out in space and you need a npn, you know the 2N2222A will save you.

It is very low noise, excellent hfe and excellent current handling. You can place a heat sink on top and it will handle 800ma.

With the 2N2907A, the 2N2222A is kickass, for push-pull output drivers up to 450ma. I use it to design vertical amps for oscilloscopes, using 2N3906 and 2N3904 as input amps.

And at a pennie copy it is a great buy.

Take Care


Ivey
 
Do not forget Ivey.

I miss the challenge of speaking with all of you. I try to get well, but it is a slow and a long process.

I am tried of taking medicines, pills, shots, tubes up my butt and so forth. My parents would love to see me like this, it's pay back for when they were growing old. I should have been a better son, and spent more time listening, and less time talking. I miss them more today than yesterday.

I grew up with the 2N2222A. It was my passion, my go to friend when I needed to design a circuit quickly and cleanly. With the 2N2907, not the 2N2907A. I found it unstoppable. The clean wave forms, the thousands of circuits, chopper, switches, audio amplifiers, and rf amplifiers.

I became addicted to the 2N2222A and 2N2907. Any US military servicemen, who served between 1959 to 1977. Came across countless 2N2222A circuits and equipment designed by me and my fellow workers.

There have been many good transistors, like the 2N2222A's close cousin the 2N4401. But still the 2N2222A out performs it.

I told all of you members months earlier that I would post a PCB layout of the 2N2222A phono preamp. Well here it is.

I talked my nephew into building this circuit with PN2222A and 2N4401. He stated it was better and cheaper than the one he built using OP27 and LM833. OP27 cost $3.29 each and the LM833 was $1.69 each. The PN2222A cost 100 @ $00.04. And it used a single supply.

The 2N2222A, have a max. noise factor of 3.7db. The PN2222A has a max noise factor of 4db. It's hfe is 100 to 350 @ 1ma/10volts. Most BC transistors do not do that good. Most of them range from 2 to 10db. The 2N2222A does everything without going over 4db. That includes switching, chopping, and amplification.

Ok, here is the PCB layout. I am online this long because my wife and family is out shopping for tomorrows holiday. And my grandson is being nice to his grandfather. He better if he wants his name in my Will.

Take Care


Ivey
 

Attachments

  • PCB EXPRESS FILES.zip
    11.8 KB · Views: 366
I found the 2N2907A and 2N2222A / 4401
are both spectacular performers in my Class D amp @ 1.25 Mhz
both are used to drive IRFB4212s
3904/3906 have the speed they just lack the current and hfe.

I also found the 2N2222A performs very well as a x30 flat phono
input stage then fed into LF353 RIAA op amp.
 
2N2222A Rules

I have used hundreds of different transistors. But I have always returned to the 2N2222A.

You can pair it with the 2N3819 and build a wonderful sounding gain block. Its low noise factor of 4db ensures you that you will have a silent circuit. Its switch speed is outstanding. Even it outperforms the BC107, which has bad current handling. Plus its noise factor is better than the BC107.

I design and built MC Phono gain blocks using it. That's 5 2N2222A and 5 2N2907 transistors. Which sounds a great deal better than Hitachi's 2SC458 and 2SA1029 combination. That people during the 1970's were crying about.

It is 2010, where is the 2SC458 today. Oh yes, it is no longer made. The 2N2222A is still being produced. Enough said.

Take Care

Ivey
 
OH MAN...., what a forest.

Do you have all of those. And if you do, what types of circuits do you use them in.

I have the Sprague's Transistor manufacture's data and process/production manuals, that details the making of all the transistor types that they produced.

Many people have no idea that Sprague made semiconductors. But they did, and they did a fine job, up until 1989.

Data points to the hfe gain of those transistors. Hold on and I will send my grandson to my shop to get volume for me.

Ok, got it. This volume is heavy, its about 3 kilos. Its states that the Sprague's part number is THC4401 for the 2N4401, using the DCA process of wafer design.

It hfe gain is 150min. @100ua @1v and 50 to 600 @ 1v @ 10ma. Noise factor is 3db max @ 1v/1.ma/1khz.

That is a damn good for a 4 cent transistor.

The 2N4403, uses the DDA process and has lower ratings. But not by much. Wafer size is .0019 X .0019 micros.

I over saw the making of special military transistors at SGS-ATES, in 1969 and 1970. I could not believe how far we came in the making of transistors in just 18 years. From a mere 20ma to 30 amp handling abilities.

SGS made the "Pro Electron Devices as well. The BC, BF, BX, line of transistors. They were really a sight to see.

When I left to return to California, they gave me 100,000 transistors, of 27 values. All the ones that I listed as my favorite transistors.

I will have grandson take some pictures of all the stuff I have in my shop. I only buy mosfets now. I have loads of fets. MPF102, 2N3819, 2N5457 and 58's, plus J112 and J175.

My favorite transistors are 2N2222A, 2N4401-3, 2N3904-6, MPSAS06-56, MPS8099/8599, and 2N5401/2N5551. But I have thousands that I do not use. Like MPS18's, 2N5210, PN2484, 2N4410, 2N6517-20 and the list goes on.

I also have thousands of Dale resistors, precisions, metal film, carbon film. Which I obtained from Dale when the closed they San Diego branch. The manager a friend of mine drop them off at my home in his pickup truck. The company did not want to ship them back to their company. So instead of the city dump, he gave them to me.

And not only that, in 1986, when WestCap close out their White Box radial capacitor line, I purchase their #2 pallet lot for a seal bid of $35.00 dollars. Now that was a problem. I had to rent a U-Haul truck to pick it up. The truck rental cost more than the caps.

What got me really upset, is that I missed the close out sale at WestCap. I could not believe I had let that one get away.

Ok, got to go wife is saying I have to rest and take my meds.

Take Care

Ivey
 
diyAudio Chief Moderator
Joined 2002
Paid Member
OH MAN...., what a forest.

Do you have all of those. And if you do, what types of circuits do you use them in.

Got them for general purpose low noise enough use because its a competent classic BJT for almost no money. Got its 2N4403 PNP brother too. I have in mind to remake a classic British 70's BJT MC stage just for the sake of it, because I had made the MM version one when I was a teenager and gifted it away later on, so I remembered it and want to re evaluate, but with many crucial changes I thought of. I think that those transistors will show the trend in its head amp and I will not have to spare my few 2SC2545E on such fun tests, which would be overkill. Don't know if it will need changes in practice, but this is the theme I have in mind.
 

Attachments

  • 323Salas4test.gif
    323Salas4test.gif
    13.4 KB · Views: 1,402
Ivey,

don't get me wrong - I love the good old 2N2222 and use them all the time mostly in the switching capacity as I mostly do digital design.
However there appear to be a range of transistors that are very good for audio work. For example the BC550. High VCE and low noise. (2.5 dB with 2K source). If you don't like high gain, don't use the "C" part :)
And the BC109 was used in a lot of low level audio circuits like the tape pre-amps where the noise really counts. Sure it has a low VCE (20V) but for the input stage it shouldn't be a problem. I didn't simulate your circuit but it looks like the collector of Q2 should be at about 10V DC.