Hi all
I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
A lot of tube schematics on the web and many with discrete semiconductors also to choose from.
During the search ,I had a look at AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf
Specifications look fantastic, ease of building/ space/ cost all very good.
I would like to ask the participants of this forum if anyone has built it, any opinions and any possible drawbacks of this implementation.
Best Regards
George
I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
A lot of tube schematics on the web and many with discrete semiconductors also to choose from.
During the search ,I had a look at AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf
Specifications look fantastic, ease of building/ space/ cost all very good.
I would like to ask the participants of this forum if anyone has built it, any opinions and any possible drawbacks of this implementation.
Best Regards
George
Hi George,
You could do a lot worse than buy the (JFET-based, battery-powered) AKSA "Paris".
For comments on its performance, see Joachim Gerhardt's posts in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/154210-mpp-11.html
(on this page and earlier).
I use one with my Benz Ebony LP - magic!
Regards,
Andy
Hi George,
I built a Hagerman Piccolo for my 103, before I had the opportunity to try a friends CineMag 3440 step-up trans. The CineMags's were more musical and detailed compared to the Piccolo. This is a no brainer for the Denon, especially considering the price.
Jeff
Here some commercial MC prepre versions, that I have heard in combination with the DL-103 (very good results):
Tube Audio Sound GmbH
1) passive solution - transformer:
/index.html?d_TM3_AMPLIMO_TM3_Mikrofon_Transformator_1_15452.htm
LeBong | 6SL7Phonovorstufe
2) Dual matched Transistor like National Semiconductor AN-222 inside of Musical Fidelity "The Preamp" (see attachement)
3) NAD PP-2 (PP2 see attachement)
Hi tiefbassuebertr
I feel that you try to make me skip my homework
Thank you very much for your infos and links.
All of them seem to be within my capabilities.
Have you listened to all of them?
The two AMPLIMO x-formers (1:5 & 1:15) seem particularly attractive.
If you tell me that you were satisfied with their performance, I may purchase one and build something to match their output.
Best Regards
George
I feel that you try to make me skip my homework
Thank you very much for your infos and links.
All of them seem to be within my capabilities.
Have you listened to all of them?
The two AMPLIMO x-formers (1:5 & 1:15) seem particularly attractive.
If you tell me that you were satisfied with their performance, I may purchase one and build something to match their output.
Best Regards
George
Yes, but not at the same time for directly comparsion and unfortunately by different combinations of line- and power amplifiers and loudspeakers.
So it is hard to say, what of my three proposals I would prefer. Therefore I would try to buy used devices of this models include the transformers for check out the advantages and disadvantages. After make your decision, you can sell the devices you don't prefer. So you have no great disadvantages regarded the costs, because you haven't buy as new. Here some weblinks for used devices (Amplimo I don't find used):
IMG_0238.JPG (image)
Musical Fidelity The Preamp 2A MM/MC Phono - eBay Pre Amplifiers, Amplifiers, Audio, Electronics. (end time 13-Oct-09 17:06:12 AEDST)
(no bidding)
NAD PP 2 Phono Vorverstärker MM u. MC - neuwertig! on eBay (end time 30-Nov-09 21:04:43 GMT)
Hi all
With the mm cartridges, there seems to be a consensus that they are treated as voltage output devices.
With the mc cartridges (I am a newbe to this) there are two schools of thought:
One is that it is a voltage output device.
The other is that it is a current output device.
The published specs for the DL 103 are:
Output: 0.3mV
Resistance:40R
Inductance:?
So I would appreciate is someone could explain if –and why- the head preamplifier for the DL 103 should be:
1) V/V
2) I/V
(I think that I should not consider the I/I and V/I options, or should’t I ?)
tiefbassuebertr, thank you for your last answer.
Best Regards
George
With the mm cartridges, there seems to be a consensus that they are treated as voltage output devices.
With the mc cartridges (I am a newbe to this) there are two schools of thought:
One is that it is a voltage output device.
The other is that it is a current output device.
The published specs for the DL 103 are:
Output: 0.3mV
Resistance:40R
Inductance:?
So I would appreciate is someone could explain if –and why- the head preamplifier for the DL 103 should be:
1) V/V
2) I/V
(I think that I should not consider the I/I and V/I options, or should’t I ?)
tiefbassuebertr, thank you for your last answer.
Best Regards
George
Hello George
first of all, I can't recommend a tube amplifier as "Head amp" or dteo-up device for a DL103 - or any MC cartridge. I have build some with different tubes and the problems are microphonics and hum / hiss.
Assuming you have an MM phono pre I'd recommend a step-up transformer with ratio 1:10 or 1:20 with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103. This works perfect in my system.
Best regards
Joao
Althea Musica
first of all, I can't recommend a tube amplifier as "Head amp" or dteo-up device for a DL103 - or any MC cartridge. I have build some with different tubes and the problems are microphonics and hum / hiss.
Assuming you have an MM phono pre I'd recommend a step-up transformer with ratio 1:10 or 1:20 with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103. This works perfect in my system.
Best regards
Joao
Althea Musica
Joao
Thanks for sharing your experience.
For now, I will go active (SS)
When you say "...with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103" you mean 100R that is reflected from the secondary towards the primary of the x-former (the load that DL103 sees through the x-former)?
Best Regards
George
Thanks for sharing your experience.
For now, I will go active (SS)
When you say "...with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103" you mean 100R that is reflected from the secondary towards the primary of the x-former (the load that DL103 sees through the x-former)?
Best Regards
George
Hello George
exctly what I mean. You can use a potentiometer first for fine tuning - connect it in parallel to the signal input and afterwards take a fix resistor as input impedance.
Keep us informed what circuit you realized and the donical results.
Best regards and have a nice weekend.
Joao
Joao and all
Some hours ago I breadboarded the
AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf
BC416C for Q2, 120R for R4.
Gain (R4/R3)=12
I will go for a gain of 15 (R4=150R), so to reach 4.5mV output from the 0.3mV(1KHz) signal of the cartridge.
With 9.2 Vdc, the output clips just above 8.8Vpp (70mVpp Input) on all frequencies from 5 Hz to 1.9MHz.
Screenshot is 100KHz square wave. Lower trace is input, upper trace is output. Not very bad for this loose layout I think.
Best Regards
George
Some hours ago I breadboarded the
AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf
BC416C for Q2, 120R for R4.
Gain (R4/R3)=12
I will go for a gain of 15 (R4=150R), so to reach 4.5mV output from the 0.3mV(1KHz) signal of the cartridge.
With 9.2 Vdc, the output clips just above 8.8Vpp (70mVpp Input) on all frequencies from 5 Hz to 1.9MHz.
Screenshot is 100KHz square wave. Lower trace is input, upper trace is output. Not very bad for this loose layout I think.
Best Regards
George
Attachments
Why not the Hiraga PrePre?
Hi George,
Why don't you build the Hiraga PrePre? Low budget, easy building fantastic sound even with metalfilm 4700uF Panasonic FM and a good outputcap.
And you have the option to upgrade with exotic parts.
I have so much fun with it, and still enjoy it very much, especially after I add a piece of lead between sytem and headshell of my RB250.
With kind regards
Sam
Hi George,
Why don't you build the Hiraga PrePre? Low budget, easy building fantastic sound even with metalfilm 4700uF Panasonic FM and a good outputcap.
And you have the option to upgrade with exotic parts.
I have so much fun with it, and still enjoy it very much, especially after I add a piece of lead between sytem and headshell of my RB250.
With kind regards
Sam
Hi Sam
Thank you for your contributionYes, the Hiraga is one that I will build also (no exotic parts though).
What psu did you use?
Which is the RIAA pre that you connected your pre-pre to?
Joao
Yes, circuit of Fig. 4 (page 4, left column) of AN-222 pdf.
Today I spent 3 hours building one channel P2P in a miniaturized version .
18mmX13mmX20mm
Late tonight I will bench test it.
Does anyone knows the inductance of DL-103?
Best Regards
George
Thank you for your contributionYes, the Hiraga is one that I will build also (no exotic parts though).
What psu did you use?
Which is the RIAA pre that you connected your pre-pre to?
Joao
Yes, circuit of Fig. 4 (page 4, left column) of AN-222 pdf.
Today I spent 3 hours building one channel P2P in a miniaturized version .
18mmX13mmX20mm
Late tonight I will bench test it.
Does anyone knows the inductance of DL-103?
Best Regards
George
Attachments
PSU for Hiraga PrePre
Hi George,
PSU is 2x 6V 1Ah Batterie and 4700uF Panasonic FC on the board. Thats all.
With the output cap I did a lot of experiments, but there is a lot of personell taste that has influence on the choice of the capacitor. My favorite is 1,5 uF Multicap RTX with 0,1 Russian Teflon in parallel.
RIAA is Kaneda phono preamp than Kaneda Line amp
Regards
Sam
Hi George,
PSU is 2x 6V 1Ah Batterie and 4700uF Panasonic FC on the board. Thats all.
With the output cap I did a lot of experiments, but there is a lot of personell taste that has influence on the choice of the capacitor. My favorite is 1,5 uF Multicap RTX with 0,1 Russian Teflon in parallel.
RIAA is Kaneda phono preamp than Kaneda Line amp
Regards
Sam
George
kudos to your miniature work! Looking foreward to read your impressions and the difference to the Hiraga Prepre.
@ Sam.
is your battery supply only decoupled with the 4700uF Panasonic FC? If yes I#d recommend to decouple it with a small inductor as well or using a current source for this.
Regards
Joao
kudos to your miniature work! Looking foreward to read your impressions and the difference to the Hiraga Prepre.
@ Sam.
is your battery supply only decoupled with the 4700uF Panasonic FC? If yes I#d recommend to decouple it with a small inductor as well or using a current source for this.
Regards
Joao
Hello Sam
"What benefit would bring a small inductor in the supply lines? Noise is very low in the moment."
It will reduce the grain in the sound,. it's just my feeling. Try it out and connect ~ 1mH between the battery and the cap.
"CS? Sounds interesting, what about a 2SK30A GR or Y, they would limit to 2-4mA. And I have a lot of them at home. Was that your intension?"
Could be a good choice. Like above you've to try it out. I like a CSS more like a usual voltage regulator. More fluent sonical appearance.
Have a nice week
Joao
"What benefit would bring a small inductor in the supply lines? Noise is very low in the moment."
It will reduce the grain in the sound,. it's just my feeling. Try it out and connect ~ 1mH between the battery and the cap.
"CS? Sounds interesting, what about a 2SK30A GR or Y, they would limit to 2-4mA. And I have a lot of them at home. Was that your intension?"
Could be a good choice. Like above you've to try it out. I like a CSS more like a usual voltage regulator. More fluent sonical appearance.
Have a nice week
Joao
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