I just bought a nice looking Mayware Formula 4 Mk3 on ebay and it arrived superbly packaged and is in seemingly good condition. However, I've noticed that the headshell bends up slightly in the middle. This would result in the cartridge not being completely horizontal if the arm tube itself is completely horizontal.
I've queried this with the seller and he has explained to me this this is how it was made and I should not try to bend it straight. If this is true, then surely the arm cannot be designed to run completely parallel to the platter.
Can someone help me with a second opinion here. Is this by design or is it simply bent?
Thanks, Ben
I've queried this with the seller and he has explained to me this this is how it was made and I should not try to bend it straight. If this is true, then surely the arm cannot be designed to run completely parallel to the platter.
Can someone help me with a second opinion here. Is this by design or is it simply bent?
Thanks, Ben
Hey Cal,
Yea, that's exactly how it looks. Ok, so it looks like a design feature. Thanks a lot - saves me from doing something stupid.
Following through my logic, I guess VTA adjustments would have to take this curve into consideration. I'm planning to use a DL103 which is a pretty large cartridge. It'll be interesting to see how it sits when it's all set up. Does anyone have any advice on VTA adjustment with this arm?
FYI, I'm new to the forum. I've been playing around with Hi-fi all my life and this is going on my latest project: I'm making a solid plinth in chestnut for my Grandfather's Lenco GL75 and I'm interested in giving the Mayware a try. Really looking forward to getting it all put together.
Current system:
Thorens TD150 + SME 3009 + DL103
Keith Aschenbrenner MC transformer
Musical Fidelity X-LPS
Rogers HG-88 Mk 2 tube amp
Rogers Ls2/a2 speakers
Ben
Yea, that's exactly how it looks. Ok, so it looks like a design feature. Thanks a lot - saves me from doing something stupid.
Following through my logic, I guess VTA adjustments would have to take this curve into consideration. I'm planning to use a DL103 which is a pretty large cartridge. It'll be interesting to see how it sits when it's all set up. Does anyone have any advice on VTA adjustment with this arm?
FYI, I'm new to the forum. I've been playing around with Hi-fi all my life and this is going on my latest project: I'm making a solid plinth in chestnut for my Grandfather's Lenco GL75 and I'm interested in giving the Mayware a try. Really looking forward to getting it all put together.
Current system:
Thorens TD150 + SME 3009 + DL103
Keith Aschenbrenner MC transformer
Musical Fidelity X-LPS
Rogers HG-88 Mk 2 tube amp
Rogers Ls2/a2 speakers
Ben
As I've finally just got around to mounting this tonearm (yes, I've been away from home for a couple of months just longing to do it!) I thought I'd post a couple of pictures. As I expected, I had to raise the arm about 8mm to get the cartridge horizontal. I've tried it with a few different setups and horizontal seems to be what it prefers. Here's how it looks:
The only problem with this is that I can't shut the lid anymore!
Aside from how it looks, the thing just sounds SO good. Well worth the wait. It's a level of soundstage, clarity, energy and detail that I've not heard with any other arm I've tried with this cartridge. The list so far is SME 3009 improved, RB300, OL250 silver and Linn LVV. The Linn was probably the second best of the bunch with a really lively and musical sound.
I know it's a cliche, but I really am noticing new details in records I know really well. Suffice to say that I'm going to spend the rest of the day listening to music
My only remaining frustration is that I've never been able to find a setup that plays the inside track of my records as I would like - there's always an element of distortion when the track gets loud, particularly with vocals. It's better with some records than others, but I wonder whether it's a weakness of this cartridge. The best compromise I've found is to use a Stevenson protractor with 2.5 tracking weight and a little bit of bias compensation. If anyone has any tips on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Ben
The only problem with this is that I can't shut the lid anymore!
Aside from how it looks, the thing just sounds SO good. Well worth the wait. It's a level of soundstage, clarity, energy and detail that I've not heard with any other arm I've tried with this cartridge. The list so far is SME 3009 improved, RB300, OL250 silver and Linn LVV. The Linn was probably the second best of the bunch with a really lively and musical sound.
I know it's a cliche, but I really am noticing new details in records I know really well. Suffice to say that I'm going to spend the rest of the day listening to music
My only remaining frustration is that I've never been able to find a setup that plays the inside track of my records as I would like - there's always an element of distortion when the track gets loud, particularly with vocals. It's better with some records than others, but I wonder whether it's a weakness of this cartridge. The best compromise I've found is to use a Stevenson protractor with 2.5 tracking weight and a little bit of bias compensation. If anyone has any tips on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Ben
Judging from the pix something is awry.
The arm above the pivot point should be parallel to the top of the TT, it looks canted to the inside.
The top of the headshell should be also parallel to the top of the TT or record surface.
The arm also looks too high above the record, the arm should be roughly parallel to the record surface (that's the VTA).
A pic down the arm from the front of the cartridge looking back to the pivot point and on line to the top of the headshell would show pretty clearly what needs to be seen to know...
There ought to be some means on that arm for static balance, that left-right over the pivot thing. I don't know that arm well, but my unipivot arm has such balance weights, and is adjustable... you may be missing something??
Fwiw, this style of arm might benefit from a counterweight that has a lower COG, for stability.
_-_-bear
The arm above the pivot point should be parallel to the top of the TT, it looks canted to the inside.
The top of the headshell should be also parallel to the top of the TT or record surface.
The arm also looks too high above the record, the arm should be roughly parallel to the record surface (that's the VTA).
A pic down the arm from the front of the cartridge looking back to the pivot point and on line to the top of the headshell would show pretty clearly what needs to be seen to know...
There ought to be some means on that arm for static balance, that left-right over the pivot thing. I don't know that arm well, but my unipivot arm has such balance weights, and is adjustable... you may be missing something??
Fwiw, this style of arm might benefit from a counterweight that has a lower COG, for stability.
_-_-bear
End of side distortion is due to the recorded wavelength becoming shorter than the stylus can trace correctly. As you've deduced, misalignment makes it worse, but fundamentally the problem is that the Denon has a spherical stylus. I used to suffer this problem with Deccas - which claimed to have an elliptical stylus, but this was pre-Shibata and stylus profiles were quite crude. The other common factor is the stunningly low compliance of both cartridges. The Decca puts a lot of energy back into the arm and made finger lifts ring - damping or removing the finger lift made a very noticeable improvement. It is possible that ringing is exacerbating your end of side distortion.
In the end, I'm afraid I gave up with Deccas as being too finicky and difficult to keep sounding nice all the way across an LP. You're the first person I've heard complaining of end of side distortion with a DL103, which suggests that your problem should be curable. Carefully correcting that bent headshell might be a good start.
Guys, thanks so much for the input. What a friendly and helpful place!
@Bear
The photos are deceptive. Setting up the balance through different axis is achieved by rotating the counterweight on the arm as the hole in it is slightly offset. It's actually a very neat and simple system. The extreme angle of lean is because the VTA is so extreme, due to the angled headshell. This is the whole purpose of this post, trying to work out whether the headshell is angled by design or whether it has become bent accidentally at some point. The pictures illustrate that to get this cartridge parallel, the VTA needs to be adjusted very high.
Interestingly the manual alludes to the angled headshell by suggesting that the arm when installed perfectly parallel will run the cartridge at an angle of 15 degrees. Various pictures I've seen of this arm (see the start of the thread) have been inconclusive due to the angles the pictures are taken from. The seller was adamant that the angle is by design from the factory and I should not try to bend it straight.
As for the end of side distortion, that's very interesting info. I guess it's about just achieving the best weight, VTA, bias and angle to minimize it. It's the second DL103 I've had, used in different arms and I've always experienced this to a greater or lesser extent. Then again, I am kind of fussy
Ben
@Bear
The photos are deceptive. Setting up the balance through different axis is achieved by rotating the counterweight on the arm as the hole in it is slightly offset. It's actually a very neat and simple system. The extreme angle of lean is because the VTA is so extreme, due to the angled headshell. This is the whole purpose of this post, trying to work out whether the headshell is angled by design or whether it has become bent accidentally at some point. The pictures illustrate that to get this cartridge parallel, the VTA needs to be adjusted very high.
Interestingly the manual alludes to the angled headshell by suggesting that the arm when installed perfectly parallel will run the cartridge at an angle of 15 degrees. Various pictures I've seen of this arm (see the start of the thread) have been inconclusive due to the angles the pictures are taken from. The seller was adamant that the angle is by design from the factory and I should not try to bend it straight.
As for the end of side distortion, that's very interesting info. I guess it's about just achieving the best weight, VTA, bias and angle to minimize it. It's the second DL103 I've had, used in different arms and I've always experienced this to a greater or lesser extent. Then again, I am kind of fussy
Ben
I agree, the angle is too high on the arm tube...
It is likely bent... the headshell...
The good part is that it is not a solid part of the arm tube, there is likely a screw under the arm tube that holds the headshell in place. You may be able to acquire a new headshell from the manufacturer, assuming they still exist.
Or have a new one made up.
Or, just bend it back...
One way to make a good determination is to take a straight edge like a ruler and hold it across the top of the headshell - it ought to lay flat. If there is a gap in the middle, it is almost certainly bent.
I'd bend it back... there's not much choice other than tryinig to return it and get ur money back from the seller - but apparently he's either dumb as a post or not honest, or both? Gee.
Post up a shot across the top of the headshell looking at the arm pivot in the background? Let us know how you make out with the bending and the striaghtedge test?
_-_-bear
It is likely bent... the headshell...
The good part is that it is not a solid part of the arm tube, there is likely a screw under the arm tube that holds the headshell in place. You may be able to acquire a new headshell from the manufacturer, assuming they still exist.
Or have a new one made up.
Or, just bend it back...
One way to make a good determination is to take a straight edge like a ruler and hold it across the top of the headshell - it ought to lay flat. If there is a gap in the middle, it is almost certainly bent.
I'd bend it back... there's not much choice other than tryinig to return it and get ur money back from the seller - but apparently he's either dumb as a post or not honest, or both? Gee.
Post up a shot across the top of the headshell looking at the arm pivot in the background? Let us know how you make out with the bending and the striaghtedge test?
_-_-bear
Read the set up directions for the Mayware Formula 4 MKIII Vinyl Engine | The Home of the Turntable and see what is applicable - I had one of the early Mayware Formula 4 MKIII, and there doesn't have to be anything wrong with the headshell for what you are experiencing to happen.
The Mayware is a uni-pivot which means that the distribution of mass if not correct will c o c k the entire arm. This could even be due to your choice of cartridge. (Is it within the acceptable weight range for the arm?) I would not move the headshell until you have investigated all of the options relating to the use of the counter weight, and other weights on the arm. (The one exception is if you are sure the headshell has become mis-aligned at some point - if the headshell is already co-planar with the top of the bearing housing this isn't necessarily the problem!!)
I think you may also need to reset VTA, the angle of the arm tube seems extreme. I can't tell from your picture whether or not there is a problem with your headshell but it doesn't really look like it from a casual glance. Incidentally that is ABSOLUTELY the correct headshell for this arm.
On further reflection and looking at other pictures I think your problems are nothing more than a possibly inappropriate cartridge choice, and inexperienced set up.. I had all the same issues with mine, and believe me it is worth sorting it out. (I sometimes wish I had kept mine.)
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Thanks everyone for the input. I can't post more pictures right now as I'm in Cape Town, but will make some adjustments and take some more pictures when I return.
@Bear: Looked at from the right angle, the bend is obvious - there would definitely be a gap under a straight edge. This is why I have to have the thing so skewed just to get the cartridge flat.
@Kevin: I completely take the point about distribution of mass. When I set it up, I had it perfectly balanced parallel to the platter and it was straight and true. It's the angle that it's working at which screws it all up I think. I don't believe that the cartridge is inappropriate, but then I've not seen any numbers for what the arm should be able to take. It's heavy for sure, but the reason I bought the arm is that it's supposed to be able to work well with low compliance cartridges and this one in particular. My experience so far, even with the setup I have here, bears this out.
Maybe I'll try heating it up a little before I try to bend it. Watch this space...
@Bear: Looked at from the right angle, the bend is obvious - there would definitely be a gap under a straight edge. This is why I have to have the thing so skewed just to get the cartridge flat.
@Kevin: I completely take the point about distribution of mass. When I set it up, I had it perfectly balanced parallel to the platter and it was straight and true. It's the angle that it's working at which screws it all up I think. I don't believe that the cartridge is inappropriate, but then I've not seen any numbers for what the arm should be able to take. It's heavy for sure, but the reason I bought the arm is that it's supposed to be able to work well with low compliance cartridges and this one in particular. My experience so far, even with the setup I have here, bears this out.
Maybe I'll try heating it up a little before I try to bend it. Watch this space...
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