For me the strongest concept here is the Paradise... make it work and you have one of the best phonostages ever created... low low in noise, liquid presentation at details simply not present i other designs, Stefano I'am reluctant to say that you limitation is somewhere else. Now I understand you need and have an urge to better that design, but "That" may just take some time, to find and polish and max out the performance of a better design concept if/when a such is found. Now the paradise had many cooks, much skill and many hours has gone into that. Not an easy task to come up with something better.
This last concept of Joachim with a trans-impedance circuit may have a possibility to close in on the paradise in terms of noise, It also has the option of a one-stage current output riaa filter. So this circuit has clearly some potential, the key is to find a good CCS solution and thus keep it from drifting towards saturation
My one-shot, was just an out of the sleeve suggestion, not intended to be a RIAA, but more like a discrete op-amp. I suffers from Noise, as all LTP. inputs does, but for line-level it should work like a dream, If correctly set up...It simulates very very low dist.
One Last thing.... Stefanoo I have a hard time reading your posts, I feel that you're arrogant. When people here try to tell you that in a pleasant way, you react by saying something like you know it all, but when reading your posts and suggestions people with knowledge can clearly see that your knowledge and skills are now where close to you claims. Please be modest and don't disqualify other peoples work.
This last concept of Joachim with a trans-impedance circuit may have a possibility to close in on the paradise in terms of noise, It also has the option of a one-stage current output riaa filter. So this circuit has clearly some potential, the key is to find a good CCS solution and thus keep it from drifting towards saturation
My one-shot, was just an out of the sleeve suggestion, not intended to be a RIAA, but more like a discrete op-amp. I suffers from Noise, as all LTP. inputs does, but for line-level it should work like a dream, If correctly set up...It simulates very very low dist.
One Last thing.... Stefanoo I have a hard time reading your posts, I feel that you're arrogant. When people here try to tell you that in a pleasant way, you react by saying something like you know it all, but when reading your posts and suggestions people with knowledge can clearly see that your knowledge and skills are now where close to you claims. Please be modest and don't disqualify other peoples work.
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Trigon has the feel of going a few decades back in time, to the T&A and AVM highlight years, and it's literally Restek part deux.
Kassel does seem like a good hatching nest for audio companies.
Advance phono 1st edition : http://www.hifishock.org/galleries/Trigon_Audio/Preamplifiers/ADVANCE_phono_---3.JPG
The Vanguard second edition still runs on LT1028/NE5534, afaig.
(an objectivist doesn't bother to listen, subjectivists don't bother to measure. Herdenverhalten in beiden Fällen.
)
yes I agree with you with everything even with the last part.
When circuit is optimazeed topology wise, passive component will make a big difference.
Day and night? Perhaps no, but they will make enough difference to change your listening experience for the most part in the better!
I agree with good part of your post.
I am looking into the transimpedance because I see potential there and I already have it simulated and behaves correctly I still need to put some work toward finding a proper CCS and then prototype it properly.
Regarding your one shot, yes it is noisy and I don't understand why you would thrown in the picture as a potential candidate for Phono stage and current RIAA in the first time knowing that.
About knowledge I don't want to comment your unfortunate comment as it would only be argumentative.
I accept contructive points and not assumptions that have no practicle basis and I am not referring to you in particular.
Let's continue with technical matters or I will just back step out and stop posting and giving my contribute here.
I closed this thread some time ago because i was insulted to be incompetent and a copy cat. I reopened it because i got many PMs and e-mails that encouraged me to continue.
So far for social media. When you go in the ring with the champion and hit him in the face it is likely that he hits back.
Nevertheless, lets stay calm and do some work.
I think the Cro Magnon is possible to make.
When we get it working i am willing to make a version with parts i like and then Stefano
i can also try your modifications. When using the parts you selected makes a big and hopefully positive difference i stop to bug you about this issue around exotic parts.
I am open to learn still.
So far for social media. When you go in the ring with the champion and hit him in the face it is likely that he hits back.
Nevertheless, lets stay calm and do some work.
I think the Cro Magnon is possible to make.
When we get it working i am willing to make a version with parts i like and then Stefano
i can also try your modifications. When using the parts you selected makes a big and hopefully positive difference i stop to bug you about this issue around exotic parts.
I am open to learn still.
this is really wonderful! I admire you for your open mindness!!
I got an idea about a temperature compensated CCS but it could be border line with patenting ....gotta make some reaseaches...but I thought of it on the way back from work yesterday!
Anyway, besides this I have make simulation with BJTs current source as suggested from your original schematic I think and using a PMOS and the BJT seems to be better for gain but a bit more noisy.
The good thing is that this circuit seems to boost the necessary gain and to be pretty quite for the majority of the needs (it is around 0.7nV/rtHz @1KHz).
Topology is inverting, but like you suggested it is enough to invert leads on the cartridge.
I wonder what kind of benefit we could have using the IF3601 in terms of noise.
Too bad there is not avaialble model for this part!
Dear Joachim
I just had a really wonderful time listening to a record over and over again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pWJ5FWe2l0
Yes I know is not the best recording around but never the less I had a very special couple off hours
This would not have been possible whiteout you coming up with Paradise the help with Hesener, FDW Miib just to name a couple (still get my maths wrong do I)
Unfortunately when taking up this on a DIY forum loads of things can go wrong and at times one or two morons (including me) are enough to spoil the fun.
Still there are going to be 200+ people around this speck of dust that are going to feel the same soon
The Paradise (and this on my set up which is not compromise free including plastic tree now sitting between speakers) is really special, I newer heard attack so realistic, a bit of magic is going on there.
So please carry on and once again tanks.
Sorry for your trouble in Malaysia do you need lift to come home? Should I make a couple of phone calls?
Well did you really think I was going to keep this serious?
I just had a really wonderful time listening to a record over and over again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pWJ5FWe2l0
Yes I know is not the best recording around but never the less I had a very special couple off hours
This would not have been possible whiteout you coming up with Paradise the help with Hesener, FDW Miib just to name a couple (still get my maths wrong do I)
Unfortunately when taking up this on a DIY forum loads of things can go wrong and at times one or two morons (including me) are enough to spoil the fun.
Still there are going to be 200+ people around this speck of dust that are going to feel the same soon
The Paradise (and this on my set up which is not compromise free including plastic tree now sitting between speakers) is really special, I newer heard attack so realistic, a bit of magic is going on there.
So please carry on and once again tanks.
Sorry for your trouble in Malaysia do you need lift to come home? Should I make a couple of phone calls?
Well did you really think I was going to keep this serious?
What do you mean? Trying IRF9610 to see how it works temp wise or were you referring to some other IRF?
The idea of making a gyrator with laterl mos seems pretty interesting.
What is your idea all about?
Consideration aside that might be worthwhile: making a temp compensated CCS the way re-ported on my previous post using a steep P-MOS could actually be a good idea.
The benefit would be that the differenctial amp would have to swing less to correct also they system would work on a tiny portion of the transcharacteristic thus taking full advantage of linearity that could also improve.
Does it seem fair?
Stefano, that is an enhanced CCS with opamp, could work. Yes, i will try IRFP9610.
The lateral mosfet i am thinking about comes in a bigger case. As Frans and i have discussed, the bigger the better. 50mA is a decent current to get good Gm out of the lateral. The biasing then runs on lower voltage because laterals need less Ugs.
Also laterals do not have that sharp current over voltage curve that other mosfets have.
Another option is to raise the gain in the cascode. That is possible with the so called " Gain Boosted Cascode". It was invented for mosfet integrated circuits where space is limited. Here you can find such a circuit :The Designer's Guide Community Forum - Gain-boosting cascode_zeros
When you google you can find more. It should also work with a J-Fet BJT cascode.
The lateral mosfet i am thinking about comes in a bigger case. As Frans and i have discussed, the bigger the better. 50mA is a decent current to get good Gm out of the lateral. The biasing then runs on lower voltage because laterals need less Ugs.
Also laterals do not have that sharp current over voltage curve that other mosfets have.
Another option is to raise the gain in the cascode. That is possible with the so called " Gain Boosted Cascode". It was invented for mosfet integrated circuits where space is limited. Here you can find such a circuit :The Designer's Guide Community Forum - Gain-boosting cascode_zeros
When you google you can find more. It should also work with a J-Fet BJT cascode.
Lateral approach sounds interesting.
Just to show my complete lack of knowledge and great ignorance in electronic to all people here who have been kindly pointed that out for me and thank you for that....here is a very simple circuit I drew in a couple of minutes and I think has the potential to be integrated with the design.
If it works, it will ensure low noise and high gain and I already have RIAA values ready to a great RIAA precision with this design.
Anyway setting jokes aside.......let me know what you think.
You might want to try this with IRF9610 and if you are interested I can share RIAA values with you and if you have the set up you can start making bench consideration.
Just to show my complete lack of knowledge and great ignorance in electronic to all people here who have been kindly pointed that out for me and thank you for that....here is a very simple circuit I drew in a couple of minutes and I think has the potential to be integrated with the design.
If it works, it will ensure low noise and high gain and I already have RIAA values ready to a great RIAA precision with this design.
Anyway setting jokes aside.......let me know what you think.
You might want to try this with IRF9610 and if you are interested I can share RIAA values with you and if you have the set up you can start making bench consideration.
Attachments
FYI this is Fig. 2 of US patent 5389889 by Towne et al., Allegro Microsystems Inc.
Temperature-compensated current source for use in a hall analog magnetic-field detector - Allegro Microsystems, Inc.
