here you are.
It is a pretty neat circuit unfortunately we don't reach a 0.7-0.5nV noise figure
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Oh.... That's my circuit... a few years OlD....Something needs to change, The folding of the second stage is quite unique.. There is some novelty in that... I have had a line-stage built this way. The dissipation in the mirrors can be an issue and the transistors may need to be heat-sinked.
the heatsink is the least of the problems here 
Check noise!
Beside RIAA is kind of bazar, but that might come later.
Let me know if you have any suggestion as to improve noise.
For a line stage it could be ok, gain drops down significantly and so does noise.
However when it comes to high gain you can really tell how good the circuit design is with respect to noise performance!
Check noise!
Beside RIAA is kind of bazar, but that might come later.
Let me know if you have any suggestion as to improve noise.
For a line stage it could be ok, gain drops down significantly and so does noise.
However when it comes to high gain you can really tell how good the circuit design is with respect to noise performance!
ok but then even phono stage like the boulder should have a noise figure of that leverl since they are FULLY balanced, while the noise figure is extremely low!
I think that this circuit is pretty novel, but hard to fit a current RIAA.
However the one stage circuit here is pretty neat too...I am try to work it out trying to get the necessary gain out of it.
If I can then I can try to build it too.
I picked the wrong one.
Try with esoteric phono...even the cheap trigon is dead quite and list goes on and on.
Paradise is very good noise wise but there is more than the noise on the equation of good sound though for cutting edge sound.
However I would be interested in knowing what the average noise floor that can be considered acceptable is.
Like a said our goal (or maybe just mine don know) is to build a phono that not only sets a Standard noise wise… But also sound wise!
Try with esoteric phono...even the cheap trigon is dead quite and list goes on and on.
Paradise is very good noise wise but there is more than the noise on the equation of good sound though for cutting edge sound.
However I would be interested in knowing what the average noise floor that can be considered acceptable is.
Like a said our goal (or maybe just mine don know) is to build a phono that not only sets a Standard noise wise… But also sound wise!
@ Stefanoo
What we all seem to forget is that there is more to amplification design [and to both 'design and matching' of all other parts of the sound system] than instrument read or simulation predicted analysis or data can tell us. Sure, a truly 'good' amplifier will measure pretty well......but there is more to it than that - there are many many amps which measure well but fail in the listening.
I believe that there is a point where 'best' audio design, which is a scientific/EE pursuit - if all we want is impressive mute lab results - begins to merge [or morph] into artistic creation.
Whilst simulation can be of great help in balancing the many design factors, it can never, of itself, straighten out a design from an aural perspective. We also know that very many of the available device models are not adequately accurate for work at this level. That being so simulation, though useful in part, cannot be used as an arbiter in "fine" design. Only ears can make such choices.
What we all seem to forget is that there is more to amplification design [and to both 'design and matching' of all other parts of the sound system] than instrument read or simulation predicted analysis or data can tell us. Sure, a truly 'good' amplifier will measure pretty well......but there is more to it than that - there are many many amps which measure well but fail in the listening.
I believe that there is a point where 'best' audio design, which is a scientific/EE pursuit - if all we want is impressive mute lab results - begins to merge [or morph] into artistic creation.
Whilst simulation can be of great help in balancing the many design factors, it can never, of itself, straighten out a design from an aural perspective. We also know that very many of the available device models are not adequately accurate for work at this level. That being so simulation, though useful in part, cannot be used as an arbiter in "fine" design. Only ears can make such choices.
Stefano, the phono stages from the German Trigon ?
That has an AD797 in the input so has John Curls phono stage for Parasound and the Linn Urika among others.
Now we are talking about 1nV/ QHz that is ok but that does not impress me.
I can design stages like that in 10 minutes.
How do you design for great sound ?
A stage that buries micro details in noise is not on my agenda.
That has an AD797 in the input so has John Curls phono stage for Parasound and the Linn Urika among others.
Now we are talking about 1nV/ QHz that is ok but that does not impress me.
I can design stages like that in 10 minutes.
How do you design for great sound ?
A stage that buries micro details in noise is not on my agenda.
Good morning out there,
dear Stefano, despite the fact im really not willing and
able to design anything as you try to.
On the other hand, i see you are impressed by rather
mediocre circuits and magic parts.
Please dont get me wrong, but i would like to emphase
you, simply, build this prapradise thingie without fancy
parts and then, judge.
After that, if there is some breath left, go further.
Just my 5 cents.
dear Stefano, despite the fact im really not willing and
able to design anything as you try to.
On the other hand, i see you are impressed by rather
mediocre circuits and magic parts.
Please dont get me wrong, but i would like to emphase
you, simply, build this prapradise thingie without fancy
parts and then, judge.
After that, if there is some breath left, go further.
Just my 5 cents.
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I hope you are not referring to me!!
Responding to Peter, maybe it is not clear to you or few other people around here that I have a deep background in electronic and 10 years on hand on experience on design work and I am an highly paid EE.
I do both HW and embedded code.
Designed for industrial, avionics, medical and commercial field.
I just want to scratch this off the plate sometime, since we don't have knowledge of each other, doubts can arise.
I chase the best sound i can obtain and I don't get happy with the first circuit I try.
I tried many, many circuits and I wasn't thrilled by many of them.
I got a reference system which allows me to her any single difference and last but not least I got very good ears.
Said this disclaimer to say that I have tried the paradise AS IS.
I don't want to be disrespectful toward the hard work that has been done here.
I will just say then that at the end if the day I am still looking for something exciting.
Anyway, remember, it is not easy to thrill me and so to many people's ear paradise might sound more than satisfactory and even excellent.
I have carried out several changes not all positives but in the end I rig up the best sound that I could get from the paradise's topology and it become much more exciting fast and detailed to m y ear and with my system.
To connect to my friends brianco, I don't only rely on simulation and paper.
Obviously it is a start, but my approach to audio bases a lot on tuning done on the system with known recordings I consider to be reference since I had the opportunity to hear the same performances on the same room they were recorder with same ensemble and I completely agree with you and all the points you touched there.
This said I am still looking for a phono design that will really thrill me.
I might not ever get fully satisfied but I keep trying and at the end it could be fun.
Regarding magic part, there isn't much to say, no one is forcing you to use these.
It doesn't matter and it would be pointless to discuss this matter here.
You also mentioned you can't do design work but then you stated that I get thrilled by mediocre circuits.
Would you mind telling me what circuit you refer to?
One shot? Master piece? Transconductance circuit?...because any of these circuits are far from Being mediocre.
Anyway, I just felt the need to clarify my position and I wouldn't want to debate further but rather focus our attention, for who is interested, on development of this new circuit simple but very slick.
This all for the attention and let's continue keeping this thread as technical as possible living the rest input of it.
Hello Stefano
I´ very interested about your ref. sys.. To what components are you comparing
the paradise (and all other circuits). Just to understand about what kind of level
we are talking about.
Greetings Ulf
I´ very interested about your ref. sys.. To what components are you comparing
the paradise (and all other circuits). Just to understand about what kind of level
we are talking about.
Greetings Ulf
Dear friends :
I had an unpleasant experience today. Many people are calling me that got an e-mail that i am in Manila, have being robbed and need money. This is not a joke, it´s true.
Please ignore this mail. Someone has cracked my account and sends out spam.
I have taken counter measures and i hope that is sufficient.
I had an unpleasant experience today. Many people are calling me that got an e-mail that i am in Manila, have being robbed and need money. This is not a joke, it´s true.
Please ignore this mail. Someone has cracked my account and sends out spam.
I have taken counter measures and i hope that is sufficient.
Stefano, i can understand your position. You want something " exciting ".
That is part of our hobby or call it a passion.
You identify certain elements that makes a difference in your system for the better.
Namely you made the experience that teflon caps ( particular ones) sound better and you do not like electrolytic caps, at least where they are not absolutely necessary.
I can accept this position. When you look over to the Blowtorch thread you will find quite fierce discussion about the audibility of passive components.
The "subjective" group would immediately agree with you. The "objectivists" mostly are on a standpoint that boutique parts even disturb the sound and that good mass produced parts are cheeper and more neutral.
My position is that when i am unsatisfied with the result i try to find out what is wrong and fix it. I certainly value topology and fine tuning over using exotic parts in a circuit that does not perform very well. For example when you have a phono stage that has some noise no cap in the world can reduce that unless it is part of the noise reducing topology. The same for distortion. A high distorting stage can not be rescued with an exotic cap.
Nevertheless, when all is said and done and the circuit is maxed out topology wise good passive components can make an audible difference that is hard to measure.
I hear differences like that too but i would call them small. Nevertheless effects like that can culminate so i do not wright them off in principle.
We just have to find a better language and terms like " drastic" "amazing" "night and day" are not very descriptive to nail the effect down. I think that is where we may have differences.
That is part of our hobby or call it a passion.
You identify certain elements that makes a difference in your system for the better.
Namely you made the experience that teflon caps ( particular ones) sound better and you do not like electrolytic caps, at least where they are not absolutely necessary.
I can accept this position. When you look over to the Blowtorch thread you will find quite fierce discussion about the audibility of passive components.
The "subjective" group would immediately agree with you. The "objectivists" mostly are on a standpoint that boutique parts even disturb the sound and that good mass produced parts are cheeper and more neutral.
My position is that when i am unsatisfied with the result i try to find out what is wrong and fix it. I certainly value topology and fine tuning over using exotic parts in a circuit that does not perform very well. For example when you have a phono stage that has some noise no cap in the world can reduce that unless it is part of the noise reducing topology. The same for distortion. A high distorting stage can not be rescued with an exotic cap.
Nevertheless, when all is said and done and the circuit is maxed out topology wise good passive components can make an audible difference that is hard to measure.
I hear differences like that too but i would call them small. Nevertheless effects like that can culminate so i do not wright them off in principle.
We just have to find a better language and terms like " drastic" "amazing" "night and day" are not very descriptive to nail the effect down. I think that is where we may have differences.