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Old 3rd February 2010, 11:17 AM   #801
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Wise words. I certainly enyoy what i am doing here, so i go back to the bussiness of designing and try to ingnore issues like that. I think there are enough people that still like good sound athough we are all getting older.
One of the biggest positive surprises i had in Taiwan some years ago. Many young people
(men and women) came to a big High End Show and lots of them wanted to listen to classical music, especially from the classical German period ( Mozart, Beethoven etc.).
I asked them why and they said that they regard classical music as part of their education ! I started to understand why so much High End gear is sold in the far east.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 01:59 PM   #802
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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The Far East is the productive heart of the globe by now. There is the growth, there is the aspiration. Most dense in audiophiles per square mile must be Singapore if I am not mistaken.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:02 PM   #803
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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You are doing the right thing!

To me the mass market music business was well explained when an American record promoter about ten years ago told me that the age group at which most pop music was targeted was the 10-14 year old kids. A flashy personal stereo they may get for a birthday but a multi thousand euro/pound/dollar system is so far away from their reality that this very large recorded sound group of buyers makes absolutely no difference to or impact on the higher end Audio market. As long as their personal player is loud enough they simply don't care. As they age most will loose interest and only a few will convert to become critical listeners.

Another group of end users comprises of the rock fan....now often old men and women!!! Give them a pair of big old JBLs and a Citation 1 &11 outfit (preferably fitted with dirty tubes) and they will feel they are 20 again!! The music they listen to at gigs etc. is, generally, heard from a stacked wall of speakers: dynamics and volume are important: location of sound - other than in L or R terms - unimportant. The signals which feed the speakers is - often deliberately so - in our terms very distorted.

But those who truly listen to music - especially played on non-amplified instruments - will always warm to a decent sound system.

Salas is right-on-the-ball regarding 'statement' buying; there has been a gradual return to high sound quality equipment produced by smaller companies. (I suspect that the big-boy-makers will have to change their tune to stop their market share slumping). I also like the Greek who said that because he liked his audio so much and that it was so expensive he drove a very old car! The music lover existed before the explosion in rock and then pop music interest. Walker and Leak in the UK were at it before this time which I suppose was in the 50s. I saw Rock Around the Clock when I was thirteen. I saw Song to Remember when only nine! I still listen to Lizst.

The smaller maker/designer usually relies heavily on proper listening tests and, in some cases, more so than on the results printed out by test equipment. The other end is well (?) catered for by the Asian import market!

Keep doing what you are doing the same way as you are doing it - your methods and priorities are right on! Good luck.

Last edited by brianco; 3rd February 2010 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:19 PM   #804
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianco View Post
The smaller maker/designer usually relies heavily on proper listening tests and, in some cases, more so than on the results printed out by test equipment. The other end is well (?) catered for by the Asian import market!
Yes, and don't forget to extend your vocabulary and perhaps prosody. It's much cheaper than a decent analyzer and could be ultimately much more lucrative, M. Fremer could witness this.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:23 PM   #805
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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Hi syn08,

Got a toothache today?
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:37 PM   #806
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
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Got a toothache today?
No, only the usual allergy.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:49 PM   #807
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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Thank goodness for that! I understand; for the record I have to say that I am not a total subjectivist. I certainly do not subscribe to the "neat" snakeoil camp, however I do believe that some magical qualities exist in some playback items which neither you or any of the other scientists and EEs can discern from measurement. Some can discern such sound quality with their ears - Joachim is one and JC appears to be another. I suspect that only those who truly experience music as having soul can hear in this way. Of course the strict measurement approach practitioner may well be unaware of some element in the make-up of audio reproduced sound so can therefore not be expected to measure its qualities. Likewise such reasons may equally well be the result of an extremely small constituent part of design or materials or a combination of such which is simply not measurable even with the best of todays knowledge and instruments....but the ear can sometimes get it more right!

Last edited by brianco; 3rd February 2010 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:51 PM   #808
iko is offline iko  Canada
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Big words, small ideas, that's a market too. Another market: impeccable measurements. The continuous implication that many designers are after great profits at any cost is ludicrous, IMHO. Sure, people need to feed their families, but I find it highly unlikely that only a handful of people in this world have integrity.

Sometimes I wonder, can this be the acme (suckers for big words rejoice) of egotism? A complete inability to understand what personal taste is?

Addendum: that being said, I am also against false advertisement, purposeful deceit, and cheating, as I'm sure it does happen with some audio companies.

Last edited by iko; 3rd February 2010 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2010, 03:56 PM   #809
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
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Joachim is one and JC appears to be another.
Interesting, how have you reached this conclusion?
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Old 3rd February 2010, 04:00 PM   #810
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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I sometimes believe what people have to say...it does not in my experience pay to be too cynical. Their awareness of the differences of which I have posted (and extended by edit function) makes them OK in my opinion. That you on your own admission do not place much value on your listening ability tells me several things, but which are true is the real question.

Incidently Nelson Pass is another to add to the list and for the same reasons - these guys actually take trouble to explain their stance and two of them simply do not pontificate.

Last edited by brianco; 3rd February 2010 at 04:04 PM.
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