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Old 7th December 2012, 08:58 PM   #8011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
how much gain did you loose with the resistor..??
well with resistor you loose about 15 dB.
You have to compensate adjusting other parameters on the circuit.
It is not trivial but not impossible.
With proper adjustments you get 61dB of gain out.
Noise rises I think by a factor of 6dB if my calaculation are right.
Said that and connecting to a comment of JC, this noise level would stil lbe acceptable on the "phono's market" and as a matter of fact you can easily listen to it and get all the microdetails as well.
Obviously more silence will be even a step further.

This solution clearly helps low level listening that before was fatiguing and now gets pretty easy and liquid.
Definitely definition of bass response and more extended and natural highs.
I get more the feeling that every vinyl sounds different, while before it was pretty monotone compared to this one.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:06 PM   #8012
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What we need is a stable DC at the output node including drift compensation of the input stage. I got that working but the gain i got is not high enough so we also need high impedance at that node. Then we need low noise, something i think is solvable becsaue the higher the output impedance of the CCS, the more it gives gain in certain limits.
That is then limited by the output impedance of the input stage. We can not make that infinite so the Signal-Noise has a theoretical limit that we can not circumvent.
I agree 0.5nV/Q Hz would be very acceptable although with other concepts we can get a few dB lower. I still would accept that because i agree with Stefano in principle that super low noise is not everything.Then the CCS should have low output capacitance up to high frequencies. Did i forget anything ?
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:20 PM   #8013
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Stefano i do not want to nit pick but i see an inconsistence in your argument chain about the electrolytics. First you say that you reduced the values and that sounded better.
That broke loose a discussion about the reason and not only Salas jumped in arguing that it may be a good idea to truncate the deep bass because of subsonic rumble. MiiB and i gave in at the end. Honest, we felt even a bit cornered but i kept the original values.
Now you DC couple and that sounds even better ! I find that a contradiction.
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Old 8th December 2012, 04:02 AM   #8014
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No pick din't worry i don't take it personal.
You have probably mis-understood my explanation.
This is the thing, with 4.7uF you obtain the best compromise between natural sound and bass extension.
Bass with 10m or more on the el cap is not deeper it is just slower. It might look a bit more extended on instrument but that is not all.
There is less articulation and the highs are damed by a color typical of the electrolytic.
When you re-adjust the circuit taking the elcap off the bass is even more articulate which makes it feel even deeper.
If you have experience with a high end gears you will agree with me that the most important thing on the bass response is its articulation or it will mask mid and highs thus causing loss of resolution.
Right now with this set up I can ensure you that music at low level is much more enjoyable and that alone tells you a lot on the gain quality.
High volume listening just confirms a finer sound with more depth and width and more extnsion on both ends or I would have to say more articulation on the bass and highs more natural.
The only thing that I am missing from the other configuration is the quieter background.
With this possible hopefully new design IMHO can have the dead quite residual noise plus a very refined presentation. Time will tell.

As for the rumble noise I was getting, it turned out to be the motor. I tighten up the screws of the pulley and the noise drop down significantly.
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Last edited by Stefanoo; 8th December 2012 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 8th December 2012, 06:10 AM   #8015
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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Stefanoo will you send me the schematic of tha adjusted paradise..?? Would like to do some sims... see how you managed the gain and still keeping til riaa filter intact..
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:15 PM   #8016
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Stefanoo will you send me the schematic of tha adjusted paradise..?? Would like to do some sims... see how you managed the gain and still keeping til riaa filter intact..
Send me your email address.
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Old 8th December 2012, 04:35 PM   #8017
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This is an interesting statistic, since 2006 vinyl sales goes up again. It is not huge but nevertheless it shows a trend.
Attached Images
File Type: png Vinyl Sales by year.png (11.3 KB, 167 views)
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Old 8th December 2012, 05:11 PM   #8018
gk7 is offline gk7
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A nice and encouraging trend :-)
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Old 8th December 2012, 05:34 PM   #8019
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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One of the leading, and also very old and famous, CD shops is closing its doors. Plato, in Rotterdam, but also Plato in Den Haag are closing the shop forever. That in itself is not very shocking, but the comment that was made, on television, by one of the competitors was enlighten he did say, something like, They are going out of business due to not serving the market, the market is moving to vinyl, and Plato was selling CD’s only. Makes you wonder… where is this going…

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And some perspective http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/h...606-1zuv7.html

Last edited by FdW; 8th December 2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 8th December 2012, 06:04 PM   #8020
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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I see the trend when going to Audio shows, vinyls is growing,. Think the future will be a split between analogue and bandwidth limited analogue (digital) streaming... The good news is that regardless speakers are needed..:-) for me the fact that vinyl is increasing s a sign that the audiofile hobby is growing and that the hobbyists like the ritual of the LP... The streaming and unlimited access removes the value of the music, it becomes a given, always present, but not of value, analogue restores the value, the adjustments, the tweaking and our influence on the result, makes the hobby grow and lures the users into the very best addiction..
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