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Old 6th December 2012, 09:07 AM   #7941
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Thanks Ricardo for reporting back.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:38 AM   #7942
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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I have just booted up and found the same email.
Joachim,
Having received several mails over the past 18 months which had almost identical wording I took it for an attempted stitch-up. However you can never be certain, so I am pleased to see that all is well.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:46 AM   #7943
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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For me the strongest concept here is the Paradise... make it work and you have one of the best phonostages ever created... low low in noise, liquid presentation at details simply not present i other designs, Stefano I'am reluctant to say that you limitation is somewhere else. Now I understand you need and have an urge to better that design, but "That" may just take some time, to find and polish and max out the performance of a better design concept if/when a such is found. Now the paradise had many cooks, much skill and many hours has gone into that. Not an easy task to come up with something better.

This last concept of Joachim with a trans-impedance circuit may have a possibility to close in on the paradise in terms of noise, It also has the option of a one-stage current output riaa filter. So this circuit has clearly some potential, the key is to find a good CCS solution and thus keep it from drifting towards saturation

My one-shot, was just an out of the sleeve suggestion, not intended to be a RIAA, but more like a discrete op-amp. I suffers from Noise, as all LTP. inputs does, but for line-level it should work like a dream, If correctly set up...It simulates very very low dist.

One Last thing.... Stefanoo I have a hard time reading your posts, I feel that you're arrogant. When people here try to tell you that in a pleasant way, you react by saying something like you know it all, but when reading your posts and suggestions people with knowledge can clearly see that your knowledge and skills are now where close to you claims. Please be modest and don't disqualify other peoples work.

Last edited by MiiB; 6th December 2012 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 01:22 PM   #7944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
the phono stages from Trigon ?
Trigon has the feel of going a few decades back in time, to the T&A and AVM highlight years, and it's literally Restek part deux.
Kassel does seem like a good hatching nest for audio companies.

Advance phono 1st edition : http://www.hifishock.org/galleries/T...phono_---3.JPG
The Vanguard second edition still runs on LT1028/NE5534, afaig.

(an objectivist doesn't bother to listen, subjectivists don't bother to measure. Herdenverhalten in beiden Fällen. )
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Old 6th December 2012, 01:28 PM   #7945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
Stefano, i can understand your position. You want something " exciting ".
That is part of our hobby or call it a passion.
You identify certain elements that makes a difference in your system for the better.
Namely you made the experience that teflon caps ( particular ones) sound better and you do not like electrolytic caps, at least where they are not absolutely necessary.
I can accept this position. When you look over to the Blowtorch thread you will find quite fierce discussion about the audibility of passive components.
The "subjective" group would immediately agree with you. The "objectivists" mostly are on a standpoint that boutique parts even disturb the sound and that good mass produced parts are cheeper and more neutral.
My position is that when i am unsatisfied with the result i try to find out what is wrong and fix it. I certainly value topology and fine tuning over using exotic parts in a circuit that does not perform very well. For example when you have a phono stage that has some noise no cap in the world can reduce that unless it is part of the noise reducing topology. The same for distortion. A high distorting stage can not be rescued with an exotic cap.
Nevertheless, when all is said and done and the circuit is maxed out topology wise good passive components can make an audible difference that is hard to measure.
I hear differences like that too but i would call them small. Nevertheless effects like that can culminate so i do not wright them off in principle.
We just have to find a better language and terms like " drastic" "amazing" "night and day" are not very descriptive to nail the effect down. I think that is where we may have differences.
yes I agree with you with everything even with the last part.
When circuit is optimazeed topology wise, passive component will make a big difference.
Day and night? Perhaps no, but they will make enough difference to change your listening experience for the most part in the better!
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Old 6th December 2012, 03:04 PM   #7946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
For me the strongest concept here is the Paradise... make it work and you have one of the best phonostages ever created... low low in noise, liquid presentation at details simply not present i other designs, Stefano I'am reluctant to say that you limitation is somewhere else. Now I understand you need and have an urge to better that design, but "That" may just take some time, to find and polish and max out the performance of a better design concept if/when a such is found. Now the paradise had many cooks, much skill and many hours has gone into that. Not an easy task to come up with something better.

This last concept of Joachim with a trans-impedance circuit may have a possibility to close in on the paradise in terms of noise, It also has the option of a one-stage current output riaa filter. So this circuit has clearly some potential, the key is to find a good CCS solution and thus keep it from drifting towards saturation

My one-shot, was just an out of the sleeve suggestion, not intended to be a RIAA, but more like a discrete op-amp. I suffers from Noise, as all LTP. inputs does, but for line-level it should work like a dream, If correctly set up...It simulates very very low dist.

One Last thing.... Stefanoo I have a hard time reading your posts, I feel that you're arrogant. When people here try to tell you that in a pleasant way, you react by saying something like you know it all, but when reading your posts and suggestions people with knowledge can clearly see that your knowledge and skills are now where close to you claims. Please be modest and don't disqualify other peoples work.
I agree with good part of your post.
I am looking into the transimpedance because I see potential there and I already have it simulated and behaves correctly I still need to put some work toward finding a proper CCS and then prototype it properly.

Regarding your one shot, yes it is noisy and I don't understand why you would thrown in the picture as a potential candidate for Phono stage and current RIAA in the first time knowing that.
About knowledge I don't want to comment your unfortunate comment as it would only be argumentative.
I accept contructive points and not assumptions that have no practicle basis and I am not referring to you in particular.

Let's continue with technical matters or I will just back step out and stop posting and giving my contribute here.
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Old 6th December 2012, 03:15 PM   #7947
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I closed this thread some time ago because i was insulted to be incompetent and a copy cat. I reopened it because i got many PMs and e-mails that encouraged me to continue.
So far for social media. When you go in the ring with the champion and hit him in the face it is likely that he hits back.
Nevertheless, lets stay calm and do some work.
I think the Cro Magnon is possible to make.
When we get it working i am willing to make a version with parts i like and then Stefano
i can also try your modifications. When using the parts you selected makes a big and hopefully positive difference i stop to bug you about this issue around exotic parts.
I am open to learn still.
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Old 6th December 2012, 03:33 PM   #7948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
I closed this thread some time ago because i was insulted to be incompetent and a copy cat. I reopened it because i got many PMs and e-mails that encouraged me to continue.
So far for social media. When you go in the ring with the champion and hit him in the face it is likely that he hits back.
Nevertheless, lets stay calm and do some work.
I think the Cro Magnon is possible to make.
When we get it working i am willing to make a version with parts i like and then Stefano
i can also try your modifications. When using the parts you selected makes a big and hopefully positive difference i stop to bug you about this issue around exotic parts.
I am open to learn still.
this is really wonderful! I admire you for your open mindness!!


I got an idea about a temperature compensated CCS but it could be border line with patenting ....gotta make some reaseaches...but I thought of it on the way back from work yesterday!

Anyway, besides this I have make simulation with BJTs current source as suggested from your original schematic I think and using a PMOS and the BJT seems to be better for gain but a bit more noisy.
The good thing is that this circuit seems to boost the necessary gain and to be pretty quite for the majority of the needs (it is around 0.7nV/rtHz @1KHz).
Topology is inverting, but like you suggested it is enough to invert leads on the cartridge.

I wonder what kind of benefit we could have using the IF3601 in terms of noise.
Too bad there is not avaialble model for this part!
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Old 6th December 2012, 03:45 PM   #7949
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Dear Joachim

I just had a really wonderful time listening to a record over and over again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pWJ5FWe2l0
Yes I know is not the best recording around but never the less I had a very special couple off hours
This would not have been possible whiteout you coming up with Paradise the help with Hesener, FDW Miib just to name a couple (still get my maths wrong do I)

Unfortunately when taking up this on a DIY forum loads of things can go wrong and at times one or two morons (including me) are enough to spoil the fun.

Still there are going to be 200+ people around this speck of dust that are going to feel the same soon
The Paradise (and this on my set up which is not compromise free including plastic tree now sitting between speakers) is really special, I newer heard attack so realistic, a bit of magic is going on there.

So please carry on and once again tanks.

Sorry for your trouble in Malaysia do you need lift to come home? Should I make a couple of phone calls?

Well did you really think I was going to keep this serious?
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Old 6th December 2012, 04:53 PM   #7950
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Joachim,

CCS with P-CH mos seems to have less noise and more gain.
Do you have a Pmos that you could recommend for this use without a steep VGS/ID curve?
Right now I have IRF9640 fitted on the model.
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