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Old 7th October 2012, 12:23 AM   #7501
kamis is offline kamis  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post
Sorry that to me is straight LM317 and a common mode coke classic straight out of book

Why do we have to put a name on it?

In other words....

Besides one may need to step back and see all the work FDW did on the suply before mentioning LM317
Look more carefully at the attached schematic, and the way caps and chokes are used. Only part of the schematic before LM 317/337 is important for raw power supply. Common mode chokes have parasitic differential mode inductance and are decent 120hz ripple filters, of course less effective than Hammond inductors. But they are much better at HF common mode noise.
I tried it as a raw power supply with my high quality phono stage with integral voltage regulators , and subjective impressions are very good,
If i ever build Paradise I will use it with Borbely voltage regulators. No-feedback regulators are a part of audio myths.
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Old 7th October 2012, 09:57 AM   #7502
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You are free to do, as you like of course
But have a look at post 7343 that is the last post in which the pre-regulator SCH was posted there was earlier in the tread a fair bit of discussion about the development of this circuit.

About the LM317 my personal experience is that they do strange things especially with large capacitors at the output or further regulation furthermore they are not needed as the existing on board PSU do pretty well.

Again I wuld look at FDW contributions earlier in this tread.

The pictures are of what I am listening to at the moment
Home brewed common mode cokes and PCB with very short and fat tracks
On the third picture the Futaba resistor (Now replaced by 5 Homs Holco 15 PPM) is strategically placed to allow for cokes to be out board.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Beta Pre-reg PSU 004.jpg (980.3 KB, 295 views)
File Type: jpg Preregulator 001.jpg (976.8 KB, 281 views)
File Type: jpg Preregulator 002.jpg (968.3 KB, 256 views)
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Old 7th October 2012, 10:26 AM   #7503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FdW View Post
Do not try to feed the CVS of the CCS of the shunt with a regulated power supply, there is a good possibility that one of them (or even both) will oscillate.

Of course the team highly recommends a passive filter using a common mode choke as discussed before, and a board was designed by Bksabath see Mpp and later.

See also Mpp
And Mpp
Maybe this make things easier to understand
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Old 7th October 2012, 10:41 AM   #7504
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamis View Post
No-feedback regulators are a part of audio myths.
The topologies that draw on the SSLV regs family like FDW's used in the paradise they all utilize negative feedback. They just don't do it through a differential amp with a return point where the loop is an obvious part of the schematic. They react directly against changes on their output VS their voltage reference by transconductance. Any voltage supply system without an error correction form (a term which shouts "feedback!") is better be referenced with the term stabilizer than "no feedback reg". Its not a reg by definition IMHO. To regulate something in all nature is about some auto control mechanism. Needs to look at a result and to adjust an action in adequate time and force deemed successful for the purpose. Just looking at the screen as we type a post tells our fingers what key to hit next or delete and hit again. That's feedback of execution against an idea of what to express. The idea is the voltage reference allegorically speaking.
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Old 7th October 2012, 10:58 AM   #7505
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Good morning Sallas.
Perfect timing
I was going to post a bit more listening impresssions about my Paradise

I did make a small remark in the past about Paradise Compared to Simplistic with the Simplistic winning, I must stress this out of memory no back to back listening, the staging presentation.

I had a chance to listen again this time with a brand new (sealed copy) of Tubular Bells.
Mercury 270 353-9 box set 180g
There is quite a lot of panning and wery simple (one instrument) music on this record

I now have the impression that what the Paradise is doing is just letting the music flow
from groove to speaker witout adding anyting.

I will need to do back to back test to be fair.

I can say that I am eager to read 200 or more further listening impressions as now that boards are setling in the sound (but more so the lack of tampering) is there with the very best I had a chance to listen to, so much so that I wonder how badly biased my impressions are.

Last edited by Bksabath; 7th October 2012 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 7th October 2012, 11:08 AM   #7506
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One thing I will have to do ASAP is to mesure the Paradise outputs and make shure Left and Right gain is the same.

If I find that the 2 boards have different gain (small difference) where is the best place to make a corection?
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Old 7th October 2012, 11:12 AM   #7507
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post
I will need to do back to back test to be fair.
Just don't put so different forms of circuits and executions in direct comparisons, there is no real conclusion to be drawn. Paradise is carved in stone having its definitive layout and PCB, its BOM. Beyond using BJTs in a much more rigorous architecture for spec. Then you can listen to many grades of a simplistic regarding parts, layout, regs, depends on the builder. Its a an SE loose concept with "artistic" DIY freedom embedded as its cornerstone. Vinyl is not an "exact" medium anyway. Its all about love. Its what satisfies your soul to listen to.
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Old 7th October 2012, 11:21 AM   #7508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Just don't put so different forms of circuits and executions in direct comparisons, there is no real conclusion to be drawn. Paradise is carved in stone having its definitive layout and PCB, its BOM. Beyond using BJTs in a much more rigorous architecture for spec. Then you can listen to many grades of a simplistic regarding parts, layout, regs, depends on the builder. Its a an SE loose concept with "artistic" DIY freedom embedded as its cornerstone. Vinyl is not an "exact" medium anyway. Its all about love. Its what satisfies your soul to listen to.
Absolutley right "comparing aples and pears" never the less I was silly enoug to raise the point to start with...
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Old 7th October 2012, 11:33 AM   #7509
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Not silly when its about what build of yours "travels" you best after a hard working long shift when knackered on your sofa. But just that, not to generalize. Paradise you can relay to others, more or less they get the opportunity to have one exactly the same after Hessener & company noble effort. Simplistic is just an avatar.
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Old 7th October 2012, 12:13 PM   #7510
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Not silly when its about what build of yours "travels" you best after a hard working long shift when knackered on your sofa. But just that, not to generalize. Paradise you can relay to others, more or less they get the opportunity to have one exactly the same after Hessener & company noble effort. Simplistic is just an avatar.
This puts an end to the topic...Nice as ever Salas.
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