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Old 26th August 2012, 02:12 PM   #7071
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Originally Posted by Bksabath View Post
Lacking Girlfriend / Wife that likes lots of boxes (although she like listening to them) I would really like a Phono stage where I can tune in different flavours.

(Talking about sound signature in respect to Paradise would be great injustice)

So we go back to my earlier question
What is that causes a gain stage to have wide sound stage.

Earlier on Joachim (?) posted an interesting article Small-Signal Distortion in Feedback Amplifiers for Audio, (sorry lost the link) the answer may be there.

We have same agreement (or sort of) that Simplistic has a wide sound stage and this is due to topology.

So search for this ingredient is IMO quite interesting.

Maybe simulation can help
Does any one have Paradise Simulation file to try out?

yes it would be a novelty as far as one forghet that same alkemist designed an amplifier that would reproduce the sound of same others amplifiers.

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I believe you are experiencing a subjective wider sounstage on the simplistic due to itīs inherent sencilibility to the psu.. and you might also be having the effect of a not so perfect riaa equalization... I have built many MC preamps and experimented a lot with shunts and riaa filters... My first build had enormous soundstage but would only play well with super recordings. Then I found I was not paying too much attention to the riaa values.... Then I had this long discussion with Thorsten who built a phono preamp with several curve options and decided to make a spreadsheet to calc the "correct" values for each build. I believe this is where we can have the greatest differences.

Other factors that influence soundstage are the TX used, the type of shunt, the type of resistor used for cart loading, cabling, there is a lot to be done



If you want I can verify your riaa values
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:21 PM   #7072
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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I wonder, maybe the paradise makes path very low near to DC without rumble roll off and it chokes smaller speakers with vinyl eccentricity? Much VLF can mask staging. Did not run an AC analysis in the sim.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:23 PM   #7073
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Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
Yes, Ricardo, that is true. The first time i heard that not only the value of the loading resistor makes a difference but also the type was from Prof. Hawkford at the end of the 80th. When they made the Essex Equalizer, that was maybe one of the first transimpedance phono stages, they found that when they put the needle into the lead in grove that the NOISE sounded different. He claimed that he got so good he could identify the type of resistor just by listening to the grove noise. They decided on a Shinko tantalum
in the end. I use Dale RS65. Soory to repeat me, but this has also an influence on the soundstage. The ear is very good at analyzing noise.
Yes, I have a friend that is a heavy TT builder and also claims to be able to detect a good sounding system just by listening to lead groove.

Shinkoh resistors are also one of my best choices when it comes to obtain the wider sounstages... (some say they are made with LSD)... the new bulk foil from Vishay are also very good if not slightly more open and forward.

It is good to know the Paradise also reacts well to finetunings like to ones we are talking about right now
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:27 PM   #7074
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Joachim... what is the imput impedance of the Paradise ?

I would like to try it with a 1:10 input TX to raise itīs gain a little but need to calc the correct load for the Tuscany cart.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:35 PM   #7075
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For my previous post VLF wondering I run AC analysis on rev2 sim posted here some time ago. Ooops, if the TT and arm are not much controlled everything will pass. No VLF roll off to speak of. Will probably differentiate a lot in various systems regarding TT, loudspeakers control capabilities, electronics roll off and/or headroom.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:37 PM   #7076
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Ricardo, the "natural" input impedance of the Paradise is around 10kOhm.
Say you need 2.3kOhm loading of the transformer ( Sowter 8055 ) you need a loading resistor of ca. 3kOhm. It appears in parallel to the "natural" input impedance.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:40 PM   #7077
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Originally Posted by Salas View Post
I wonder, maybe the paradise makes path very low near to DC without rumble roll off and it chokes smaller speakers with vinyl eccentricity? Much VLF can mask staging. Did not run an AC analysis in the sim.
Now this is a thought !!!

Once I demoed a riaa preamp with small ported and undamped speakers and could really see the woofers almost coming of the enclosures with no audible sound (just the TT / arm / cart working in the lead grooves).

But I believe we can convey a "false" imense sounstage if we are not carefull with riaa filter values.... Off course it will not play every record... It might sound thin sometimes.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:42 PM   #7078
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Salas, the simplest way to give the Paradise some rolloff in the bass would be an output cap. When the input impedance of the line stage is 47kOhm i would try 0.47u to 1u.
Yes, i think it could be the capacitive coupling in the Simplistic that could give it an advantage if the record is not totally flat or the arm-cartridge combination has a peak in the subsonic region. I hope all here have a good enough turntable so that it does not ruble in itself.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:42 PM   #7079
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
For my previous post VLF wondering I run AC analysis on rev2 sim posted here some time ago. Ooops, if the TT and arm are not much controlled everything will pass. No VLF roll off to speak of. Will probably differentiate a lot in various systems regarding TT, loudspeakers control capabilities, electronics roll off and/or headroom.
How did you do this sim ?
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:46 PM   #7080
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
Salas, the simplest way to give the Paradise some rolloff in the bass would be an output cap. When the input impedance of the line stage is 47kOhm i would try 0.47u to 1u.
Yes, i think it could be the capacitive coupling in the Simplistic that could give it an advantage if the record is not totally flat or the arm-cartridge combination has a peak in the subsonic region. I hope all here have a good enough turntable so that it does not ruble in itself.
Just brain storming here to explain the phenomenon. It looks possible some will say this and some will say how the hell you heard that when using a pure path pre in different grade and scale systems. Hmm, maybe we nailed it.
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