Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Analogue Source

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:12 PM   #6521
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
RCruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wallis
Blog Entries: 1
Yes but 1% is not enough in a situation like ours.... 11nF is way different from 11.11nF

Even 0.5% might not be enough ... I usually match pairs of caps and then top them off with 10pF SM in order to get a good soundstage
__________________
RC
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:15 PM   #6522
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
When the Teflons stray in the negative direction we could trim with Styroflex. I made good experience with caps from RS. They are made by LCR in England.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:19 PM   #6523
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
RCruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wallis
Blog Entries: 1
Indeed, that is how I do it... select a slightly lower value and top with smaller SM or styroflex.

In the case of the trebble cap (11nF) the difference in cap used might produce dramatic results... micas are ver well defined but stark... styroflex sounds duller sometimes.. it is a question of taste.... If we could get teflons in the pico farad range
__________________
RC
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:24 PM   #6524
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
RCruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wallis
Blog Entries: 1
I must confess I never experimented with V-caps or other expensive teflons.... I use FP-3 CCCP teflons for interstage with superior results but these "cheap" military units do not work for me in the riaa trebble cap position... the extension is awesome but lacks the "fullness" of a tin foil RT cap for example.
__________________
RC
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:43 PM   #6525
diyAudio Member
 
Stefanoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: italia - ora USA -WI
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
I must confess I never experimented with V-caps or other expensive teflons.... I use FP-3 CCCP teflons for interstage with superior results but these "cheap" military units do not work for me in the riaa trebble cap position... the extension is awesome but lacks the "fullness" of a tin foil RT cap for example.
If you didn't you are missing something, performance of thse caps is a lot superior to anything else you ever tried.
__________________
Stefano
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:47 PM   #6526
diyAudio Member
 
Stefanoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: italia - ora USA -WI
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
Yes but 1% is not enough in a situation like ours.... 11nF is way different from 11.11nF

Even 0.5% might not be enough ... I usually match pairs of caps and then top them off with 10pF SM in order to get a good soundstage
It is something I have to experiment with once boards get in.
It never happened to me that a 0.5% or even 1% tolerance on the RIAA could cause such a high displacement.
I guess that this high sensitivity to the nominal values might be due to the high output impedance of the gain stage.

Anyhow, like I said, parts I get are usually better than 0.5%

And even if it wouldn't be enough, do you have a precise LCR meter that can go lower than 0.1% tolerance on C measurements?
I think mine gets down to 0.05% I have to double check.
__________________
Stefano

Last edited by Stefanoo; 2nd August 2012 at 07:49 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 07:56 PM   #6527
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
FdW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Both feet on the ground (near Gouda)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
Yes but 1% is not enough in a situation like ours.... 11nF is way different from 11.11nF

Even 0.5% might not be enough ... I usually match pairs of caps and then top them off with 10pF SM in order to get a good soundstage
IMHO 0.5% = 1% / 2 = 0.25% x 2

The point is 11.11nF is NOT 'way different' from 11nF it is 1% we, being technicians, should not lose our self’s in Hi-end-techno-babble. We may agree that 1% is too much, we I am never going to agree that 'depending on situation 1% could be more (or less) then 1% (in some other situation).

Just MHO

The guys from the ATL do agree, and are mounting a fresh set of 0.0000001u% capacitors in there record player (Note: u% = 1/1000000 of an %) and complaining that the f% capacitors did not arive.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 08:16 PM   #6528
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
RCruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wallis
Blog Entries: 1
I already had some heavy discussions about this subject with Thorsten and got no concensus.
Anyway, I can assure you 10pF difference in 11n will be audible in the trebble region. Maybe because these 10p come from a different kind of cap bypassing the main one... but it matters.

I also know that technicians tend to base their conclusions based on a math truth alone.... In that case a MKS should not differ from a teflon but........

In the begining I believed this design was so heavily "filtered" that it was inpervious to cap type changes.... now it seems the idea is growing in another way... this is cool.

I am already very happy that some of us agree on the idea that the riaa values can be trimmed to perfection and 9kr is different from 9.9kr.... fortunately we now have a very good base for testing.... If possible I will try the teflons (If I can afford those)

Fascinating subject
__________________
RC

Last edited by RCruz; 2nd August 2012 at 08:25 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 08:27 PM   #6529
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
FdW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Both feet on the ground (near Gouda)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
I already had some heavy discussions about this subject with Thorsten and got no concensus.
Anyway, I can assure you 10pF difference in 11n will be audible in the trebble region. Maybe because these 10p come from a different kind of cap bypassing the main one... but it matters.
My point was/is that 1% is 1% and it is not depending on circumstances. But I do agree (like the ATL guys) the 0.1% (even less) can make a big difference, but it is not depending on circumstances, there is a technical reason for that (even if we do not understand the reason).
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2012, 08:29 PM   #6530
diyAudio Member
 
Benedetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Knifetown-Germoney
__________________
preregulatorpeterE-MAIL
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:56 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2