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Old 24th July 2012, 03:16 AM   #6321
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Joachim,

thank you so much for your answer.
I didn't know that you had given it the name of MasterPiece.

I will look info on the forum under that name an other names and I will put all the starting material together and I can start working on it.

I have to say that all your designs are incredible and thank you (and to all the other guys who are taking part in these projects) for sharing all the info.


I will have to go through the 600 pages again and find the material and I willl post it so that it can start.


Talk with you soon.
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Old 24th July 2012, 03:28 AM   #6322
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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The masterpiece is only a rough concept and there is not too much to work from, I spent a little time putting it in my simulator, and could not make it work..Something makes it floating around and it not possible to have the two branches balanced out with no offset.
I also think that you need to have the two legs single-ended at the riaa correction otherwise the tolerances of the components in the riaa compensation may lead to high distortion. sorry but I don't see the benefits of a total balanced unit. Maybe a balanced input to reduce noise-hum pickup from the arm/cable, this must then be weighed against the additional RBB noise from the input..

Last edited by MiiB; 24th July 2012 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 24th July 2012, 03:49 AM   #6323
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thanks miib.
Well you are a master in simulation and if you were not able to make it woek it will be hard for me to do better

Looking at the circuit, it actually look it could work.

Have you simulated the circuit below (from post 5029)?

Mpp


Looking at Paradise V1/2 it looks like an amazing circuit.
The only note I would have from a sonic stand point is that the big electrolytic cap on the signal path might have an impact on the sound.
Am I missing something?
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Old 24th July 2012, 07:24 AM   #6324
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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This is about the Mini-ATL's See:Mpp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
I am sorry that the first Paradise version gives such trouble. They work in Heseners setup but as soon as they have left the creator they have a life of their own.
The new version does not present problems so far.
I have a little project where i plan to use the ATL Mini Shunts. I found two little bugs :
First : the BD transistors have to be turned 180
Second : I set the ouput voltage with two 12V Zeners and supply the Shunts with my Nobrainer Preregulator. I put on dummy resistors to simulate a load of 20mA.
Under this condition i get plus 11.4V and minus 11.7V. I then measured the voltage over the Zeners and that was quite different. This behaviour is not critical when we supply integrated Opamps. They can stand quite an asymmetric supply. My problem is that i want to supply a preset discrete SMD buffer that has some offset when voltages are not the same. I could select the Zeners of cause. My question to Frans is if there is a posibility to fine tune the symmetry with other means.
There is a resistor parallel to be(R3/R10 Mpp) of the BC337/327 (Rbe), this resistor sets the current through the zener diode to Vbe/Rbe. If the current is increased then the voltage across the zener will also increase. Doubling the current will increase the voltage across the zener by about 0.1Volts (depending on the zener).

To fix the 11.4V regulator you need to add a parallel resistor of about 1.2K. So add a potentiometer of 2K parallel to Rbe of the 11.4V regulator and adjust for 11.7V. That will do the trick and it will not influence the quality of the regulator.

Let me know how/if it worked.

Last edited by FdW; 24th July 2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 24th July 2012, 07:27 AM   #6325
FdW is offline FdW  Netherlands
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This is about the Mini-ATL's See:Mpp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
The drop over the current setting resistors R1, R7 is also a bit different. Maybe they can be adjusted to make the output voltage similar,
Don’t worry, this is mostly harmless
Mostly Harmless - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by FdW; 24th July 2012 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 24th July 2012, 11:18 AM   #6326
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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The version 2 paradise is the best sounding circuit out there....if implemented correct it can better any commercial circuit. See the AC-coupling in the input as a clamp holding the voltage spread on the input transistor, as the signal is not really passing though, If it had impact like a bypass cap, the sonic reports would not be the way they are. The circuit is unigue as it lowers distortion with higher frequency, It's one stage + a buffer stage and has no caps in the signal-path, yet no offset problem and no drift in the output...It's simple and elegant and took all (most) the brainpower of the design group to put together. Off course there could be alternations ans improvements, but to be honest they will be more cosmetically than performance improvements. Stefano I strongly recommend you get in on the group-buy when that will be ready..

Last edited by MiiB; 24th July 2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 24th July 2012, 02:01 PM   #6327
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Thanks Frans.
I will try this.
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Old 24th July 2012, 02:31 PM   #6328
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I will absolutely build it when the group by starts.
I could even re-emulate the layout on my SW and build one now (as I am so anxious to try this wonderful circuit), but that would be a waste of resources as it been worked by hansen already.
I am amazed at how much work was done to create this circuit and like you said all the team took part to this implementation which is remarkable, no (or almost) commercial design could be a match for all this work IMHO.
Regarding the AC coupling, I would probably just make the note, to try a couple of different caps of different quality just to see if it has an impact on the sound.
In my little experience, whenever I would try the solution of the extra "zero" (a high capacitor value) on the feedback path (classic way of stabilize the DC offset) the sound was significanlty degraded in my case.
Maybe this cap serves for another purpose and has a different impact.

I was also wondering among all the fantastic designed offered by Joachim and all the team here, if anybody had a chance to compare the paradise V1 or 2 against the Starless or the Truth design and how they compare.
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Old 24th July 2012, 02:44 PM   #6329
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Frans, i connected now the Mini Shunts without trimming to the circuit. It is a buffer-filter i designed for an ESS DAC board by EUVL.
Offset is around 5mV per channel so this buffer is tolerant to unsymmetric voltage.
The buffer is more or less the same we use in the Paradise R2 but done in SMD.
Here is the whole scheebang.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Anti Alias.jpg (259.7 KB, 411 views)

Last edited by Joachim Gerhard; 24th July 2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 24th July 2012, 03:40 PM   #6330
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I have now put this DA converter in my system. I had supplied the buffer with 2 x 9V batteries but this sounds better. I hear more details and resolution. It is also cleaner and more dynamic.
Thanks Frans for this nice little thingy.
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