MPP

That is the masking effect, it works both ways, adding and substracting.
It works to a certain degree because the ear hears the envelope and not single tones like in an FFT.
When i compare what i have read in the literature and did try myself i would say :
1% second is not audible. 0.1% third is not audible.
That is only in the range where the ear is most sensitive. Out of that range the ear is even more tolerant. That does not imply that we should not make our circuits as low in distortion as we can ( when we can ).
 
Designing a circuit for low distortion often improves PSU rejection too.
We do not want that our circuits hiss or hum.
Designing for low distortion can also improve frequency response and that can improve settling time. We do not want that our amp stores energy.
Low harmonic distortion comes with low intermodulation distortion.
Because the intermodulation distortion can be far away in frequency from the signal we want to hear the ear is more sensitive to intermodulation then it is to harmonic distortion.
And then is the issue of RFI rejection. We want our amp only amplify the music and not an alien signal.
In summary designing for heroic low distortion will not improve the sound when it comes with other compromises that may be more audible.
 
There is another issue that really bugs me : stability into complex load.
Many super high feedback amps only perform well on a dummy load.
With loudspeaker connected they may produce audible distortion.
My friends at Stereoplay did a lot of research into this. The reason was that many tube and low feedback amps won the listening contest but did not do as well in the lab then super high feedback designs. It proved that the distortion spectrum of the good sounding amp was dynamically more even. For example the proportion of the various harmonics was similar over level and frequency. I would say the conclusion is that what is disturbing us is not so much static distortion but an unmusical " change".
 
Do you mean acoustic phase ?
That is not so easy.
How much phase distortion is audible is still under debate.
You can read Jens Blauert , Räumliches Hören.
There is an english version.
He is more talking about group delay and found that less then 1mS at 1kHz is not audible.
That implied that a 4th order Linkwitz/Riley is not audible although it has a phase rotation of 360° over the frequency range. This is the steepest crossover i would recommend.
We tested L/R4 in Essex in the 90th. It was a digital version of the Audio Physic Tempo.
We could switch from classic L/R4 to a phase linear FIR filtered version. With normal music material the difference was hard to tell. On artificial pulses some listeners heard a difference.
Why do i not use an L/R 4 here but an L/R 2 ?
I did that because the drivers are so wideband that they allow it. That gave a rather simple crossover with only a few parts. I like that because fewer parts give less distortion.
This is not an amplifier, the passives in a speaker get really taxed with high current and voltage. I think this simplicity gives the Satori Mons this very open sound and not so much the order of the crossover.
 
With amplifiers it it different. In a causal system like an analog amp phase response it tied to frequency response over the Hilbert Transform. A wide band amp also has low phase distortion in the audible band. I like wideband amps but there is also the issue of RF ingress and stability.
I would say for a power amp 5Hz to 200kHz ( -3dB ) is fine. I prefer a first order rolloff.
For a preamp i usually go for 3Hz to 1MHz.
 
Here you find another philosophy by Joseph Manger :
Manger - Precision in Sound
I worked and discussed with Manger for many years and still keep a good relationship to Daniela.
In his theory phase rotation and jumps are not allowed because they disturb the audibility
and imaging of noise like signals. This happens in the first uSecs and has nothing to do with hearing " tone ". That needs at least 10mSec.
On the other hand i build the Virgo 2 that is not phase linear but images like crazy, an Enigma.
 
Hi Joachim yes I mean acoustic Phase I am not sure if this can be interpreted as Phase distortion when phase is shifted as passing troug a RIIA filter.
I will have to digest the links you posted obviously so tanks for now.

Congratulations about Audio Pysics to have named SF Amati on a 7 pages +test and folow up article, you not doing bad for a 33 year old.
 
What comes out of the phono stage is not more phase distorted then what was cut on the record provided that the RIAA curve is held to high frequencies.
The RIAA compensates 100% the curve that is cut on the record.
I have shown this here many times by putting an anti RIAA before the phono stage that is measured.
The cutting system itself and possible phase distortions during mastering are of cause not compensated. The phono stage is stupid and does not know this.
 
What comes out of the phono stage is not more phase distorted then what was cut on the record provided that the RIIA curve is held to high frequencies.
.

So RIIA filters do not introduce a phase shift?

Fair enough, but why am I licking your shoes ?


Sorry Of topic...

Honestly I don't know Jacco you seems to be licking all sort of weird things from fish sauce out of your fingers and rubber clodded girls.
At time you seems to confuse the actual act with fantasy RE. rubber Claded Girls

Shoes are just natural progression typical of your conditionas reprted on statistical studies of your disorder.

As why you are now doing this subconsciously is another question

The fact that you are surprised on founding yourself doing itand are surprised about it ,altrought sign of dwindling sanity as opposed to seriously disturbed personality disorder and taste for shooes , would suggest a possible chemical imbalance , it is only going to deteriorate in time I am afraid, but can be corrected with proper therapy....

please send $$$$$ Cheque to my usual PO Box....:D:D:D