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Old 8th May 2010, 06:32 PM   #1291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Wright View Post
Sorry, Nelson's amps DO NOT sound like a tube amp, to a good tube amp designer. To someone who has only ever heard high NFB SS amps, they may sound more like a tube amp, but they are FAR FAR from being even close to a good tube amp.

They sound like (to me) poorly engineered solid state amps - with very little feedback - which in this case is not a good thing. IMO.

Regards, Allen
And this sounds like (to me) sour grapes from someone who thinks he's deserving of a greater following than he has. Jealousy is such a unfavourable shade on you Allen.
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Old 8th May 2010, 09:56 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
And this sounds like (to me) sour grapes from someone who thinks he's deserving of a greater following than he has. Jealousy is such a unfavourable shade on you Allen.
That comment is **, and not worthy of further mention. No SS amp sounds like a good tube amp, and there are a lot of good tube amps, not just mine.

Regards, Allen
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Old 8th May 2010, 10:35 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
And this sounds like (to me) sour grapes from someone who thinks he's deserving of a greater following than he has. Jealousy is such a unfavourable shade on you Allen.
Gee,

And I thought it would be silly to think a solid state design with selected components in a very well developed design would sound like an amplifier that has a much more limited parts selection and uses output transformers!

What people like in an amplifier really does depend on them. Peavey, QSC and Crown sell the most amplifiers. I have access to a lot of amplifiers, Mosfet is closer to tube than is linear bipolar, but it is not the same.

I expect any good audio component to be designed and tested with modern equipment and techniques but the final voicing is up to the designer. Even in something as "simple" as a distortion curve there is a lot of information that is best viewed with experience, practice and knowledge.

What you prefer is your choice.

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Old 8th May 2010, 11:32 PM   #1294
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Again, my experience is that i like two types of amps. One is "accurate" and one is "musical". In a pefect world, the amp that measures best, sounds best. In praxis an amp with technical "flaws" like low damping factor and high distortion can sound wonderfull.
My theory is that this kind of "audiophile" amps add something to the source material that makes the sound more digestable. I did not measure Allens amp but i expect more distortion and lower damping factor then is posible with a lots of feedback. The miracle was that his amp sounded more accurate to my ears them my technically briliant transistor reference. It sounded more open, more clean, more resolved and more natural. It really crossed the border between reproduction and production. I had a strong feeling of beeing in the presence of the musicians. Allen, you will get recogntion for this amp, maybe more then you can cope with. I simply erase your comments about Nelsons work out of my brain, ok ?
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Old 9th May 2010, 08:26 PM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Wright View Post
That comment is **, and not worthy of further mention. No SS amp sounds like a good tube amp, and there are a lot of good tube amps, not just mine.

Regards, Allen
That's an interesting absolute comment. SS vs tube is not worthy of further mention? No SS amp can ever sound like a "good" (note not best) tube amp? What are you trying to say?
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Old 9th May 2010, 09:21 PM   #1296
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Let me add, to me Nelson's designs are a challenge to the complex reductionist engineering practice that many are taught. The fact that so much pleasure can come from so many people following his precepts of simplicity is compelling.
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Old 9th May 2010, 09:41 PM   #1297
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I would be intrigued to know what particular NP amp(s) Allen was listening to and more importantly what type of speakers where they connected to (sensitivity, impedance, dependance on electrical damping, etc.).
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:06 AM   #1298
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
That's an interesting absolute comment. SS vs tube is not worthy of further mention? No SS amp can ever sound like a "good" (note not best) tube amp? What are you trying to say?
There are many folks who prefer an amplifier with a touch of even order harmonic distortion.

I had on fellow who liked an amp with higher IMD, he thought it had better bass response. (OK, he played the euphonium!)

I just did a gig where the system had a bass bump, measurements said to take it out, listeners (One fiddler, a choir director, an acoustician... (sounds like a bad joke)) decision was to leave it in. (most rooms loose low bass through the walls and sound thin without a boost)

As to making a solid state amp sound like a tube amp, there are folks who added output transformers to solid state designs resulting in a more tube like sound! Modeling can probably get you very close, but considering all conditions such as output load, power line impedance, etc. you could probably get out of the models range.

So while we can measure accuracy for many different conditions, people can prefer something else, often for a good reason, sometimes not.

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Old 10th May 2010, 12:44 AM   #1299
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I know a person, Prof Zöllzer at the Bundeswehr University in Hamburg that has deconstructed a Vox tube guitar amp from the 60th. They needed nearly 2 years and put the simulation into DSP. The result sounded convincing and the procuct, a small box, is much cheeper then the Vox, so that makes sense to me.
Still i find it stupid for High End Audio to build a transistor amp that sounds like tube.
If i want a tube sound, i whould build a tube.
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Old 10th May 2010, 11:18 AM   #1300
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Scott and others,
What I'm saying is what I wrote: "no SS amp can sound like a good tube amp".

But that means what it says - nothing more, but also nothing less. And I'm NOT saying a SS amp can't sound BETTER than a good tube amp - just that it can't/won't sound the same.

They are just very different animals.

Regards, Allen
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