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Old 22nd June 2012, 12:40 PM   #61
7n7is is offline 7n7is
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Davison View Post
30 or 32 gauge...

This is great wire for tonearms (other than Van Den Hull MCS Silver.. which is waayyyy pricey but very very nice)
Very reasonably priced solid core can be had at:
Silver | A-M Systems

Good results were obtained with a CD-4 quad system with silver wire discussed here
Silver tonearm wire
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Old 19th November 2013, 05:23 PM   #62
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wilds Of Canada
my contribution as a possibility:

32.0 AWG

edit: don't bother calling, I just snagged the last sample in the building, that is of the appropriate sizing, 30ga and smaller. They had just one short sample.

Other than that, it's a 10 lb minimum, just to see if it works, which is at least $500+. 10lbs is the minimum and the cost per lb is high, as they have to set up and run a machine, by the pound (weight). and in that the ultra fine gauges have very many feet per lb and the rate of ft per second through the flattening hardware is limited, so that the product comes out perfect, with no cracks or damage to the enamel.

I think it will work incredibly well, which is why I snagged what I could, to do a test.

I've got a roll of custom made 4-9's silver flat beside me right now, and I can assure you that it was horrifically expensive, but the gauge is just a bit to big for this application. Dang.

Last edited by KBK; 19th November 2013 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 21st November 2013, 07:14 PM   #63
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wilds Of Canada
Ok, the wire showed up this morning. It is a 4:1 ratio flat enameled OFC copper, 30ga.

I got a whole 11ft of it - all they had.

It looks very promising.
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Old 21st November 2013, 07:53 PM   #64
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wilds Of Canada
Okee dokee. Sony A350 DSLR in full manual mode, m42 adapter, pentax SMC 1.4 Super-tak stopped down to 8, with 3 extenders and a 2x multiplier, with intense direct lighting.....that's what it took to get a shot of it. The markings on the ruler are 0.5mm.

Even on it's longest diameter, it is no greater than about 24ga (0.511mm, in width, which means the skin effect region is north of 100khz), and in the other axis, well, 36ga or thereabouts, so 1Mhz+. What this means is a stable and wide complex z bandwidth, that round wire or Litz cannot hope to match. I find Litz windings, multi-strand windings, or any multi-ga windings to be very..uhm..grainy sounding, at best. Not counter-intuitive, just not generally well thought through.

We are looking for complex harmonic systems to be presented with a low z, of wide stable bandwidth, with the least disturbance and most linearity in all complex aspects of 'in situ' expression. Round or litz both fail in comparison.

This moves more toward 'best simple approximation of a complex ideal', which all others cannot hope to match.
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Last edited by KBK; 21st November 2013 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 21st November 2013, 08:11 PM   #65
G Doggett is offline G Doggett  New Zealand
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I have rewired several tonearms with PC mouse wire with excellent results.
No need to twist it as the metal arm is acting as a shield anyway, and it is more flexible as individual wires which is very important where the wires leave the arm and turn 90 degrees to enter the base.
Most are already colour coded red,green,blue and white !!!!!
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Old 27th November 2013, 12:28 AM   #66
truepaul is offline truepaul  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default Cardas cable ?

Anyone tried this?

For about the same price as a spool of a-m systems silver wire mentioned earlier, there’s a bloke on e*bay who’s selling Cardas shielded turntable tonearm wire cable, 4x33 AWG. Says the product is Cardas Litz copper; each set of (4) conductors are wrapped in PTFE tape then shielded in copper braid to insulate the signal.

He recommends buying five feet, and sells it for about $15/foot. Based in London. I've no connection with the gent, just wondering if anyone has seen this or tried it.
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Old 28th December 2013, 06:47 PM   #67
PaulWDent is offline PaulWDent
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Join Date: Dec 2013
I just looked at Cardas website and don't believe their wire is a Litz weave. The essential principle of Litz wire is that the weave makes each strand dive in and out of the bundle so that each strand spends the same amount of the length on the outside and the inside. That means that current cannot just flow on the outside strand of the bundle. Any current flowing on an outer strand has to keep flowing on that strand when in dives into the middle, as it cannot leap across to another strand from which it is insulated. If it spends too long in the middle, interstrand capacitance will eventually transfer current to a strand nearer the outside. That's why the weave should make each strand dive in and out as often as possible. Another way to look at it is, if all strands are woven in an identical pattern, the current can't tell them apart and so flows equally on all strands. From the pictures of the stranding on Cardas website, they don't use such a weave. Therefore the wire is not Litz and will not show any advantage. Make your own Litz wire instead in the following way: Twist three strands of 24-32 AWG enamelled copper together using an electric drill. You will need a lenghth 9 times the final length you want. Then fold it in three and do the same again to get a 9-strand weave of 1/3rd the length. Then fold it in three yet again to get a 27-strand weave of 1/9th the length. This is not a true Litz weave but it is pretty good. The best way to measure its effectiveness is to wind a large toroid with a single layer, and measure the Q of the coil with a Q-meter, comparing it to the Q when wound with non-litz wire of the same total copper cross section. A higher Q means the resistance at the measuring frequency is that much less.
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