Do MC carts sound better than MM ones?

well, do MC carts sound better than MM ones?

  • yep

    Votes: 52 69.3%
  • nope

    Votes: 23 30.7%

  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .
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Well, punk, do they?

Being old enough to have had many cartridges through my experience I will say that the MMs I tried - and lived with over many years - included the ADC 25 and 26. These were actually stupid cartridges which were so compliant that they tracked best at under 1 gram. However they jumped around on anything other than the flattest of records and one well known record shop refused to sell me records as I too often returned them as unplayable! BUT when all was well these MMs back then sounded as good as was possible.

I also tried Decca cartridges but although extremely dynamic I found that they had a tiring relentless quality and moved on to MCs.

Again I had many of these, but have two favorites (still). One is an early SPU/e Ortofon and thye other is an original Kondo Audionote Io (with elliptical stylus). Both are troublesome as they need a lot of step-up and also they can be nowhere near their best potential in a less than perfect arm.
If the bearings are not absolutely right both will shake them to bits! These cartridges produce a lot of energy. Other than the homemade arm I use now, the old SS FR64s or 66s have proven to be the best for purpose.

I have not heard many of todays good MCs but those I have heard seem to be too sterile for my liking. They do not in my experience produce the type of sound I like.

If I were to have to buy a cartridge within the next few months I would buy an old SPU and have it rebuilt by the Expert Stylus Company here in the UK. THey specialize in this particular cartridge and, having heard a recent sample of their work, I can only say that they do a world class job. For UK £600-700 (total) you get an equivalent to a cartridge retailing at triple that figure.

I have had many others but the above are the ones which are at the top of the pile for me. All of the views above are also fully valid. THe Technics - I think it was a 305 or some similar number - was a glorious MM when fitted with the top stylus.
 
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I have not heard many of todays good MCs but those I have heard seem to be too sterile for my liking. They do not in my experience produce the type of sound I like.

I think that much of that sterile character is down to phono stages. Only little noise from their regs and a Riaa filter not taking into account how an MC measures on an actual test record, just all nice and textbook, can push it too far along with the high gain needed. It takes a ''fizzy'' quality. To the contrary, MM by being naturally subdued in the highs and 18dBV stronger as a generator in average, can come across tamer and limp. Alas, enough info is lost. Of course, correct tone comes first in order to appreciate any info. Else its a drill on endurance to shrill.
 
I worked in a Hi-Fi store for too long. Grados are okay, but only the gold or silver, don't pay any much more for an elliptical tip. A good FG or Fine Line makes a huge difference, surface noise seems to drop big time with more exotic tip geometries.

I dealt with clearaudio, sumiko, ortofon, Benz Micro, Dynavector and a couple others.

The best I've heard are the Benz-Micro gear. The aces, ('specially Low output) and Gliders are absolutely sublime. And ofcourse the gullwing:)

But I'm loathe to spend the kind of money you need to get into the good Benz stuff. I recommend the Ortofon Salsa. It's goofy looking but it sounds amazing for the money (Super Fine Line tip!)
 
I have a Sure in my Technics. I don't even know what kind it is. Sounds fine to me.

But is the issue here is moving mass? Which is less? Moving Coil or Moving Magnet?
Has anyone tried Moving Neodymium, or Moving Field Coil (IE: not the pickup coil
thats doing the moving)?

I'm assuming there is some minimum BL that has to be achieved. And then after that,
additional moving mass (even if the signal gets bigger) is dead weight. Is this how it
works, or am I completely off the page?
 
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But is the issue here is moving mass? Which is less? Moving Coil or Moving Magnet?

MC is lighter, and allows lighter cantilever assembly too. Check out the MMs and MCs, look at their needle tubes. MCs have smaller almost always. That is why it goes higher and extarcts more info. MM relies on resonating with capacitance on cable and termination. That is why there is a range or single pf value on MM spec. Without that it would go to about 8-9kHz. If you measure it while tracking pink noise and have a pot changing the 47k termination with standard pf or change some pf while steady at 47k, you will be amazed on how much it tilts up or down for many octaves. Transducers must be correctly terminated. In most systems if you don't really see what is happening, it is just hit or miss. Hence the bulk of opinions, that MC is detail but hard (bad FR and noisy excessive gain), or that MM is too dull (not enough electrical resonance). Give them equal everything by test (correct total FR, SNR, equal line output level) they will both sound tonally correct, the MC will have more info for comparable needle and construction quality carts. Then bust a needle and cry for MC. MM can be made very good today and phono has it better with them, especially if it gives dip switches for a range of pf termination. And you can exchange your broken needle.
 
The best cartridge I have ever had was a modified Decca London Mk5. I used to replace the stiff stylus positioning cord with a silk thread, add a square of damping silicone (1mm on a side) to the horizontal wiggling surface and cut out offset grooves in the nylon body and stylus body clamp. They would track perfectly at 1.25 gram in a Rabco ST 4.

This is neither MM or MC in their truest sense.

Nothing I have heard since even comes close and I do have a few cartridges, including one last Mk 5. Not sure my fingers will work at that level again though, so it might never get used.

Bud
 
Well, punk, do they?

No. You are debating technology not gear in an unqualified argument at best.

Saying that mm carts are better than mc carts is similar to saying:

1. electrostats are better than dynamic loudspeakers (or vice versa)
2. single ended is better than push pull (or vice versa)
3. solid state is better than tubes (or vice versa)
4. DC is better than cap coupled (or vice versa)
5. IT transformer coupled is better than cap coupled (or vice versa)
6. toroids are better than EI (or vice versa)
7. solid core wire is better than stranded (or vice versa)
N+1. any of the other myriad of competing technologies we debate

I use a 1k Clearaudio MM and am quite happy with it. In comparing my stock 1200mk2 with said cart to my friends VPI TNT mkV with JMW 12.5, $1500 phono cable, and Koetsu RSP it loses just a little bit of nuance, but not 10x the price in difference. The difference is actually quite small.

In all fairness to mc cartridges, I have owned a few expensive ones and sold dozens if not hundreds. Now in the realm of hifi dealers, selling a more expensive cartridge to a willing buyer is a better deal than selling a less expensive one so if a guy can lay out the cash for a $3-10k Koetsu, Air Tight, Lyra, Clearaudio, or something else fancy, why try to sell something for less?

Soundsmith makes a 2k mm I would like to try...when my Clearaudio wears out.
 
- can't remember - been too long - but transformer stepups had to be really good and lightweight transformers despite ok graphs didn't cut it and lost detail & dynamics - let loose of a very good Technics IIRC(?) transformer which must have weighed ~8lb & had multiple layers of shielding and was good to 250Khz - nuvistors were microphonic and sometimes noisy - heard a few "decent" MM - in those days used various preamps with MM including Bruce Moore's big octal things with outboard supply - guess I missed out on good MC
 
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