Hello guys!
I've got three turn tables and I need opinions on what to do with them.
They are as follows:
1) B&O Beogram 1700 (working)
2) B&O Beogram 1800 (working)
3) Pioneer PL-630 (not working)
Now, I know many of are fighting the urge to tell me to throw them in the dumpster, (as I've seen on other treads) but I do hope your self-control gets the better of you!
Firstly, are the B&O's worth the effort to clean and lube or are they just low quality TT's to start with?
Secondly, as for the Pioneer PL-630, it's so goofed up I wonder if its worth having repaired (I cant find a decent TT tech in Charlotte, so I'd have to ship it off!) or would my money be better spent on just finding another used TT altogether?
Bill.
I've got three turn tables and I need opinions on what to do with them.
They are as follows:
1) B&O Beogram 1700 (working)
2) B&O Beogram 1800 (working)
3) Pioneer PL-630 (not working)
Now, I know many of are fighting the urge to tell me to throw them in the dumpster, (as I've seen on other treads) but I do hope your self-control gets the better of you!
Firstly, are the B&O's worth the effort to clean and lube or are they just low quality TT's to start with?
Secondly, as for the Pioneer PL-630, it's so goofed up I wonder if its worth having repaired (I cant find a decent TT tech in Charlotte, so I'd have to ship it off!) or would my money be better spent on just finding another used TT altogether?
Bill.
The Pioneer seems to be a more serious table. The B&O pickup is something special, though. Don't know about the arms.
Specs on the B&O:
BeoGram 1800 Record Deck Product Specifications
Types: 5811, 5813, 5814, 5815
Bearing: Knife vertical, ball horizontal
Tracking force range: 0-20 mN/2g
Tracking error: 0.11 degrees/cm
Antiskating: Integrated in tone arm system
Arm friction vertical: 0.019 mN
Arm friction horizontal: 0.19mN
Arm length: 229mm
Wow & flutter DIN: <+/- 0.09%
Wow & flutter WRMS: <+/- 0.045%
Speeds: 33 - 45 rpm Rumble weighted: >62 dB
Rumble unweighted: >42 dB
Speed deviation: <+/- 0.1%
Drive system: electronic servo drive & belt
Motor: DC Tacho
Power supply: 180 - 265 (110) V
Pickup: MMC5
Power frequency: 60-60Hz
Power consumption: 8 watts
Dimensions WxHxD: 44 x 8,5 (37cm with lid raised) x 33cm
Weight: 6kg
Finish: Aluminium
Specs on the Pioneer:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PL630/PL630.html
Noise floor: 75dB (DIN B)
wow&flutter: ± 0,035% (DIN B)
What is wrong with your Pioneer?
Specs on the B&O:
BeoGram 1800 Record Deck Product Specifications
Types: 5811, 5813, 5814, 5815
Bearing: Knife vertical, ball horizontal
Tracking force range: 0-20 mN/2g
Tracking error: 0.11 degrees/cm
Antiskating: Integrated in tone arm system
Arm friction vertical: 0.019 mN
Arm friction horizontal: 0.19mN
Arm length: 229mm
Wow & flutter DIN: <+/- 0.09%
Wow & flutter WRMS: <+/- 0.045%
Speeds: 33 - 45 rpm Rumble weighted: >62 dB
Rumble unweighted: >42 dB
Speed deviation: <+/- 0.1%
Drive system: electronic servo drive & belt
Motor: DC Tacho
Power supply: 180 - 265 (110) V
Pickup: MMC5
Power frequency: 60-60Hz
Power consumption: 8 watts
Dimensions WxHxD: 44 x 8,5 (37cm with lid raised) x 33cm
Weight: 6kg
Finish: Aluminium
Specs on the Pioneer:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PL630/PL630.html
Noise floor: 75dB (DIN B)
wow&flutter: ± 0,035% (DIN B)
What is wrong with your Pioneer?
Does it at least spin? If so, then just disable all the tone-arm"s auto features and use it manually. It's got to be better than those B&O's?
Jeff
to the last SL1200 owner who posted ...
look at www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PL630/PL630.html for a little information.
It certainly can't be any worse than an SL1200
look at www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PL630/PL630.html for a little information.
It certainly can't be any worse than an SL1200
It certainly can't be any worse than an SL1200
That's an interesting point. The PL-630 may actually sound better than an SL-1200, but the odds of finding a decent working unit may not be so good. It would appear Pioneer spent big R&D money back in the '70's, chasing the high end DD market.
Jeff
Thanks guys!
Nice link Dave! Well Flavio81 and Jeff, It is something in the tone arms auto circuit. When full auto is used the tone arm goes back and forth and up and down all on its own and the platter wont spin. When used in manual mode the platter wont spin either. I goofed around inside a while back and bypassed the beam and electronic eye on the tone arm mechanisim, the only thing that happend was the motor shaft began to rotate (oscillate) back and forth very quickly? Oh, and thanks for the link Nanook!
Bill.
Nice link Dave! Well Flavio81 and Jeff, It is something in the tone arms auto circuit. When full auto is used the tone arm goes back and forth and up and down all on its own and the platter wont spin. When used in manual mode the platter wont spin either. I goofed around inside a while back and bypassed the beam and electronic eye on the tone arm mechanisim, the only thing that happend was the motor shaft began to rotate (oscillate) back and forth very quickly? Oh, and thanks for the link Nanook!
Bill.
No I dont have a service manual. I'm not realy "bright" enough to be messing with it the first place! I did manage to replace the tone arm belt though, but it didnt correct anything.
If I could figure out how to bypass the auto function AND get the platter to turn I'd be in business!
What are the flaws with the B&O's I've listed? (Short form would be fine)
There's a service manual on the vinylengine.com. You'll have to register before you can download a copy.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-630.shtml
Jeff
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-630.shtml
Jeff
Jeff, thanks again! Would you mind downloading and emailing it to me? The site wont allow me to get past the first register page?
I made it through the cleanings of the B&O's...
I went ahead and "serviced" the Beogram 1700, if you can call it that. The platter bearing was inaccessible so all I could do was remove some heavy rubber depoits from the motor spindel with dentured alcohol and oil the tone arm shaft.
The Beogram 1800 was a surprise however, the platter bearing was accessible and it resembled a pointed steel rod received by a female brass "collar". I was able to remove the lube and regrease the bearing. The tonearm was accessible in order to oil on this model and possesed a less resistive mechanisim.
The difference between the quality of the two was amazing! The Beogram 1700 sounds like it's keeping time better, but it still generaly sounds like crap!
The Beogram 1800 is keeping fine time, and the now "lesser" level of drag on the tonearm produced a discernible sound quality improvement!
Just thought I'd post in case anyone was interested.
The B&O's sound like they are having speed control issues (both have new belts), should I clean them? If so, what parts does one clean and how best is that done?
I went ahead and "serviced" the Beogram 1700, if you can call it that. The platter bearing was inaccessible so all I could do was remove some heavy rubber depoits from the motor spindel with dentured alcohol and oil the tone arm shaft.
The Beogram 1800 was a surprise however, the platter bearing was accessible and it resembled a pointed steel rod received by a female brass "collar". I was able to remove the lube and regrease the bearing. The tonearm was accessible in order to oil on this model and possesed a less resistive mechanisim.
The difference between the quality of the two was amazing! The Beogram 1700 sounds like it's keeping time better, but it still generaly sounds like crap!
The Beogram 1800 is keeping fine time, and the now "lesser" level of drag on the tonearm produced a discernible sound quality improvement!
Just thought I'd post in case anyone was interested.
I'm a member of vinylengine and can definitely download manuals, contact me via pm over the next couple of days and I will try to download and send it to you.
Edit: I just downloaded the manual, let me know where to email it. Note that it is slightly over 7MB so some email accounts may find this too large an attachment. (Gmail is ok with large attachments)
Edit: I just downloaded the manual, let me know where to email it. Note that it is slightly over 7MB so some email accounts may find this too large an attachment. (Gmail is ok with large attachments)
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Hello Bill,
Do you have the 1700 and 1800 both with cartridges? What is the Cartridge number? MMC1/MMC2/MMC3/MMC4/MMC5...
If I remember correctly, the 1700 and the 1800 may not use the same cartridge - the 1800 should have a cartridge like MMCx.
I have an 1800, and RX2 and a TX2. Looking for a cartridge myself - MMCx.
Let me know if you want to swap one of my TT for one of your cartridges...
Do you have the 1700 and 1800 both with cartridges? What is the Cartridge number? MMC1/MMC2/MMC3/MMC4/MMC5...
If I remember correctly, the 1700 and the 1800 may not use the same cartridge - the 1800 should have a cartridge like MMCx.
I have an 1800, and RX2 and a TX2. Looking for a cartridge myself - MMCx.
Let me know if you want to swap one of my TT for one of your cartridges...
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