I know very little about the good and bad brands of Record Player and did not live through the time being only 19 but since I have access to a large number of very good classical recordings on LP, I thought I might invest in a turntable for myself.
So my question really is which turntable should I get? I'm okay with new or used that isn't important, just a decent quality player for a reasonable price. Say less than £200, ideally less than £150.
I realise asking about best players opens a huge can of worms but any and all wisdom people could impart to me is hugely appreciated.
-Telemin-
So my question really is which turntable should I get? I'm okay with new or used that isn't important, just a decent quality player for a reasonable price. Say less than £200, ideally less than £150.
I realise asking about best players opens a huge can of worms but any and all wisdom people could impart to me is hugely appreciated.
-Telemin-
Without question, your first turntable should be a Technics sl1200.
1. They're easy to find.
2. They're very tough to damage, and if you do, they're easy to service.
3. They still manufacture the table and parts for it.
Besides that, they have pretty good sound and engineering that is orders of magnitude better than pretty much anything you can buy new.
1. They're easy to find.
2. They're very tough to damage, and if you do, they're easy to service.
3. They still manufacture the table and parts for it.
Besides that, they have pretty good sound and engineering that is orders of magnitude better than pretty much anything you can buy new.
I use a Music Hall MMF-5 that I picked up from an Audiogon auction for about $250 US a couple years ago. I've been extremely happy with the sound, and it's a beautiful looking table to boot.
Otherwise, I'd second the vote for the Technics. Very easy to find in good shape, and a rock-solid great sounding table as well.
Otherwise, I'd second the vote for the Technics. Very easy to find in good shape, and a rock-solid great sounding table as well.
You have mail in case this link does not work:
Go for a Lenco GL75 and look at this site:
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Go for a Lenco GL75 and look at this site:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php
They can be very very good!
d to the g said:
I have made a DIY turntable using parts from a rekokut, have owned three Oracle turntables with nice arms, a Nakamichi Dragon CT, a couple of Denon and JVC with the rosewood bases and I can unequivocally give a +1 to your recommendation of the the SL-1200.
It's a tank, sounds good to very good, and has many upgrade paths through KAB if the mood strikes you to upgrade.
As you're in Nottingham, there should be lots of dealers stocking Nottingham Analogue turntables. They will certainly be out of your league but it would be worth hearing something good to understand why you should be choosy about what you get for your valuable collection of LPs. Your budget is very limited, and you're going to need to spend quite a bit of it on a cartridge that has a good enough stylus not to ruin your LPs. If your mechanical skills are up to it, you could consider building a turntable like the Altmann (do a search). By the way, although Altmann says you need a lathe to cut the platter, this isn't essential - it could be done by a router pivoted on a piece of wood (known as a trammel). I made pick-up arms when I was 14 with no Internet assistance, so making a complete turntable at 19 is perfectly feasible.
Buy a second hand turntable. For example any technics from the 80s with direct drive. Technics pickups are very decent and you can get hyperelliptical styluses for them at lpgear dot com for US$40, that combination will sound very, very good and will fit your budget.
IMHO there is no decent NEW turntable for your budget. Stay totally away from those "USB turntables" and the like. Avoid them like the plague.
I agree on getting a used TT. I can't cotton the direct drives. Not even the more expensive ones. I had an SL1200 and found it boring. I did rip a really nice tonearm off of one of its older brethern... it will be going on a diy belt-drive (perhaps based on the LP12 bearing & inner platter i have (Linn will be horrified about my plan thou
)When the great direct drive boom happened we were selling tables new, and even budget belt-drives handily outperformed the more expensive direct drives.
Being in the UK you should be able to pick up a used Rega II or III for well within your budget. Probably still leaving you with sufficient cash to buy a new Grado or Audio Technica cartiridge.
dave
It's very interesting to see how direct drives are shunned by the audiophile elite. Most audiophile turntable manufacturers DO NOT publish rumble&flutter specification for their expensive belt drive tables. While the regular manufacturers such as technics do.
If you check out the specs for technics turntables:
http://www.vintagetechnics.info/turntables.htm
... you will find that all of their DD turntables have incredibly good specs. Typically 0.03% flutter and lower than -75dB rumble (DIN B measurement). Objectively, they are excellent turntables.
Why Rega & others don't publish flutter&rumble figures? I bet it's because they aren't that spectacular.
If you found your SL1200 "boring", or any turntable "boring", first try using other cartridge/stylus combination. That will influence the sound MUCH more than the turntable itself.
Telemin, you ask a question that can quite easily receive a thousand different answers from a thousand different people. For your budget you could potentially get a:
Rega Planar 3, RB300 arm and Rega cartridge.
Linn Axis, LVX or Basik arm and suitable cartridge.
Systemdek XII, Rega, Linn or OEM arm and cartridge.
AR The Turntable (Legend) Linn or OEM arm and cartridge.
All of these represent mid tier tables from the 1980's and various different approaches to the business of belt drive. That is no indication of bias, just what I am familiar with and what you may have access to easily via Ebay in the UK. All will do a very creditable job of lifting information from vinyl and belts and spares are still very much out there. You will pay a premium for a good Axis with a decent arm. It carries the name Linn after all. IMO the best bargains are the AR (which I use) and the Systemdek both of which tend to fall in the shadow of the Linn name. Very good examples can be had for well within your budget. The Rega is the other real alternative but I would question if it possesses the prowess with classical music you require especially if it has a Rega cartridge. However it is still in production of sorts, it will hold its price if you wish to sell on and can be significantly upgraded at a cost. This list is by no means exhaustive, but in a given 4 week period an example of all four can be found on ebay, and the Linn and Rega will always be there. The main challenge is getting a cosmetically good one.
Rega Planar 3, RB300 arm and Rega cartridge.
Linn Axis, LVX or Basik arm and suitable cartridge.
Systemdek XII, Rega, Linn or OEM arm and cartridge.
AR The Turntable (Legend) Linn or OEM arm and cartridge.
All of these represent mid tier tables from the 1980's and various different approaches to the business of belt drive. That is no indication of bias, just what I am familiar with and what you may have access to easily via Ebay in the UK. All will do a very creditable job of lifting information from vinyl and belts and spares are still very much out there. You will pay a premium for a good Axis with a decent arm. It carries the name Linn after all. IMO the best bargains are the AR (which I use) and the Systemdek both of which tend to fall in the shadow of the Linn name. Very good examples can be had for well within your budget. The Rega is the other real alternative but I would question if it possesses the prowess with classical music you require especially if it has a Rega cartridge. However it is still in production of sorts, it will hold its price if you wish to sell on and can be significantly upgraded at a cost. This list is by no means exhaustive, but in a given 4 week period an example of all four can be found on ebay, and the Linn and Rega will always be there. The main challenge is getting a cosmetically good one.
My opinions are based on literally thousands of tests with a huge range of TTs, arms, and cartridges.
I know that a lo tof the DDs had very good specs but as always it is hardly the whole story.
dave
Before buying, see what you can get for free, for example, if a friend put his old stereo up in the loft, I'd guess they'd be Ok with you having the turntable.
I did this (but with Grandad), and got a TT plus pre-amp for nothing. It's by far the best price.
Other than that, listen to lots of TTs, with the rest of your system, then decide. Taking recommendations here is fine, but in the end, you're the one who has to live with it.
Chris
I did this (but with Grandad), and got a TT plus pre-amp for nothing. It's by far the best price.
Other than that, listen to lots of TTs, with the rest of your system, then decide. Taking recommendations here is fine, but in the end, you're the one who has to live with it.
Chris
I just said "be careful with audiophile gear"... There are serious tests and then there are audiophile-tests which are almost completely made of vague words and total subjectiveness.
That's true, but specs are a good starting point. And sometimes they aren't measured or stated properly, or you need more specs. For example i can say this TT has a rumble of -78dB, and you'd say "wow"... but that turntable's resistance to external vibrations is so low that when placed on a normal listening room at loud levels, there will be very NASTY bumps on the low-frequency response!!
Or i can tell you "this pickup has 20-22000KHz response", which is meaningless. But if i say "this pickup has 20-22000Hz response +/- 0.5dB", then you can say the frequency response is very good indeed. Etc.
Remember too, many of the "entry-level" TT's available, particularly the vintage models come from an era when CDP's were advertised as"perfect sound forever". They mostly had ruler flat response, and other specs that looked amazing. They were not!
Numbers can be "massaged" to show most anything!
Don
Numbers can be "massaged" to show most anything!
Don
A good test is a good test.Have you got anything against "audiophiles"?Your comment sounds hostile and worn...too worn.
As for cartridges,even the one you describe,will not sound good only because of its frequency response
Early CD players were made to look good by choosing their specifications very carefully. They quoted distortion at full level (the best level for a digital system). Worse, they gave wow & flutter and speed accuracy figures when these were entirely vinyl problems. I suppose we should be thankful they didn't give rumble figures. Perhaps I'll have to make a turntable and give as part of its specifications:
Guaranteed monotonic
Plays all formats
No copy protection or virus issues
Dave the subjective impression of DDs being boring is interesting and almost the exact opposite of mine. I've always found the Regas, music halls, pro-jects leaned more towards the boring end of the turntable spectrum. The DDs maybe lacked that last little bit of detail (on the low end), but always made up for it with more "slam" for a lack of a better term. More bass impact, a more tactile feel. The DDs always seemed to be built to survive natural disasters while I always felt a little nervous handling the popular entry level belt drives.
Interesting how people find different things boring and/or interesting.
Interesting how people find different things boring and/or interesting.
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