Great find guys
Wow, what a discovery. This belt/idler hybrid looks great. I'm sure that that it will perform well.
rhing: I've found good bicycle grease works well. I use "Bullshot", but it is no longer made. It's a red waterproof type and not as heavy as some automotive types. I'm confident that you could also try a heavy white lithium grease.
Now OT: I have a Kencraft/Trio table that I have never found any information on. Perhaps someone here knows the Kenwood tts quite well and can suggest a Kenwood equivalent? It is a Kencraft GX-870 full auto DD. I'll post a pix right way.
Wow, what a discovery. This belt/idler hybrid looks great. I'm sure that that it will perform well.
rhing: I've found good bicycle grease works well. I use "Bullshot", but it is no longer made. It's a red waterproof type and not as heavy as some automotive types. I'm confident that you could also try a heavy white lithium grease.
Now OT: I have a Kencraft/Trio table that I have never found any information on. Perhaps someone here knows the Kenwood tts quite well and can suggest a Kenwood equivalent? It is a Kencraft GX-870 full auto DD. I'll post a pix right way.
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Thanks for the tip on the grease. I will start looking for the appropriate lubricants. Apparently, Kenwood specified a Molybdenum Disulfide grease for the platter bearing. The original thrust bearing plate is a 19mm dia. x 4mm thick Polyurethane disc. I will look for Polyurethane discs, but it seems that Delrin (Acetal) would be a better material since it is harder, but not too hard, has lower friction and better wear and creep properties than Polyurethane. I may experiment with both materials to determine what will give the smoothest operation.
Molybdenum Disulfide grease...
...should be available at almost any Yamaha motorcycle parts counter under the "Yamalube" brand. And cheap too.
I like white lithium grease as you can make your own thermal grease by adding fine powdered aluminum to it...
, finally the cheapskate in me comes out. It also doesn't stain the way red or black grease does.
I may have found an answer to my own question regarding the Kencraft table. It appears to be a slightly more upscale KP-5022(DD, unfortunately not the hybrid drive of the KP-5021).
...should be available at almost any Yamaha motorcycle parts counter under the "Yamalube" brand. And cheap too.
I like white lithium grease as you can make your own thermal grease by adding fine powdered aluminum to it...
, finally the cheapskate in me comes out. It also doesn't stain the way red or black grease does.I may have found an answer to my own question regarding the Kencraft table. It appears to be a slightly more upscale KP-5022(DD, unfortunately not the hybrid drive of the KP-5021).
...should be available at almost any Yamaha motorcycle parts counter under the "Yamalube" brand. And cheap too.
I like white lithium grease as you can make your own thermal grease by adding fine powdered aluminum to it...
I may have found an answer to my own question regarding the Kencraft table. It appears to be a slightly more upscale KP-5022(DD, unfortunately not the hybrid drive of the KP-5021).
Hi Stew,
You must be reading my mind. I saw that same Yamalube listed on Amazon.com. I will check out the nearest Yamaha motorcycle dealer and get the grease. As for the thrust bearing plate, I purchased a 19mm dia. Delrin rod from the local plastics store, so I will part off a 4mm thick disk and sand the surfaces flat. I've read where many Lenco and Thorens TD-124 owners have replaced their thrust bearing plates with Delrin and significantly reduced the bearing friction and associated noise and rumble.
This particular model was in relatively good shape cosmetically, but its platter drive system was in pretty rough shape. To restore proper operation of the drive system, I tore down the thrust bearing assemblies for the platter and belt/idler wheel pulley. The original Polyurethane thrust bearing plates in both bearing assemblies had disintegrated into pieces.
I fabricated smooth-surfaced Delrin thrust bearing plates from Delrin rod stock. Next, I cleaned and polished the bearing and shaft surfaces and the platter bearing sleeve starting with Goo Gone, followed with lighter fluid and finally with Brasso metal polish. I did a final cleaning with lighter fluid and a microfiber cloth.
I lubricated the platter shaft, bearing and bearing sleeve with Honda Pro Molybdenum Disulfide 60 grease. I used Shell Formula 5W-20 motor oil to lubricate the belt/idler wheel pulley shaft, bearing and sintered bronze sleeve.
I used MG Chemicals Rubber Renue to recondition the original idler wheel rubber surfaces. This is a volatile and toxic substance, so I applied this only in a well-ventilated area.
After assembling everything back together, I found I needed to align the idler wheel with the stepped pulley to insure proper speed selection. I used #8 Nylon washers as shims in the idler wheel armature subassembly to adjust the height alignment of the idler wheel.
Finally, I put on a strobe disk and confirmed the speed accuracy and proper operation of the drive system. Here's a video showing how quietly and smoothly the platter rotates now.
Kenwood Trio PC-400U Idler/Belt Drive Turntable Test Drive, Part 1 - YouTube
So now I'm onto working on the tonearm and making all the final adjustments.
I bought some 1/8" thick cork sheet from the local hardware store and used a hobby knife to cut out a new platter mat. It turned out very well for $2.
I ordered a 3 gram headshell weight for vertical arm balance, a replacement belt for a spare and a replacement N-25 stylus for the original Kenwood MM cartridge that came with the turntable. Once that arrives, I will send this table on its maiden voyage feeding my refurbished and modified Dynaco SCA-35 integrated amplifier.
Can anyone help with instructions on adjusting the lateral balance and antiskate for the stock tonearm? I would appreciate any help. A copy of the service manual or owners manual would be awesome.
Thanks,
I ordered a 3 gram headshell weight for vertical arm balance, a replacement belt for a spare and a replacement N-25 stylus for the original Kenwood MM cartridge that came with the turntable. Once that arrives, I will send this table on its maiden voyage feeding my refurbished and modified Dynaco SCA-35 integrated amplifier.
Can anyone help with instructions on adjusting the lateral balance and antiskate for the stock tonearm? I would appreciate any help. A copy of the service manual or owners manual would be awesome.
Thanks,
Check on Vinylengine here: Vinyl Engine | The Home of the Turntable, note to access the extensive library you need to be a member, but any serious vinylphile should be a member of this forum..
If this table is not in the library someone on that forum can probably help, probably here too..
If this table is not in the library someone on that forum can probably help, probably here too..
I was finally able to figure out how to adjust the lateral balance.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EREF87Xeg_k
I am happy to say that this turntable sounds pretty good with the stock cartridge. I think a nicer Grado MM will sound better and provide greater air and detail. The bass was solid and clean and the mids were very nice playing through the Dynaco SCA-35. The soundstage and imaging were very nice too. There was no rumble or noise coming through on playback and the drive system plays quietly. I do hear a little noise when the idler wheel is driving the platter, and no music is playing through the speakers. I think I'll need to ultimately get the idler wheel rebuilt. Hopefully, I'll have an opportunity to bring this to a friend's home soon and compare it to his Empire 208, Thorens TD-124 and Lenco L-75 turntables.
- Adjusted cartridge alignment such as offset, and overhang. For this, I used the "Stupid" protractors from the Vinyl Engine website (Cartridge Alignment Protractors | Free Turntable, Tonearm & Cartridge Tools | Vinyl Engine). I used both the Baerwald and Loefgren protractors to insure proper alignment.
- Balanced the arm with 0 tracking force
- Removed the anti-skate weight and set the anti-skate to 0
- Propped up the rear of the turntable approx. 80mm and released the tonearm from its rest.
- I slid the lateral balance weight inward and outward until the arm stayed in a stationary position, and did not swing freely inward or outward.
- Installed the anti-skate force weight in a middle position.
- Using a digital tracking force gauge, I set the tracking force to 1.25g.
- Playing on blank portions of a disk, I increased the anti-skate force to where the tonearm did not move freely inward or outward. To increase or decrease the anti-skate, I could also slide the weight up and down the arm it was mounted to as well.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EREF87Xeg_k
I am happy to say that this turntable sounds pretty good with the stock cartridge. I think a nicer Grado MM will sound better and provide greater air and detail. The bass was solid and clean and the mids were very nice playing through the Dynaco SCA-35. The soundstage and imaging were very nice too. There was no rumble or noise coming through on playback and the drive system plays quietly. I do hear a little noise when the idler wheel is driving the platter, and no music is playing through the speakers. I think I'll need to ultimately get the idler wheel rebuilt. Hopefully, I'll have an opportunity to bring this to a friend's home soon and compare it to his Empire 208, Thorens TD-124 and Lenco L-75 turntables.
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I installed a mint-condition Shure M97eX MM cartridge on the Kenwood I had on hand from an old AR XA turntable that I am also restoring, and this turntable sounds much better than before. 1.5g tracking force with the Dynamic Stabilizer down yielded the best sound with regard to frequency response, detail and I was able to dial in the anti-skating using the HiFi News & Record Review test LP. I also propped the table up on a 3/4" thick bamboo cutting board sitting on rubber/cork feet. On this makeshift platform, the turntable sounds better with a good tonal balance of bass through the treble.
I found out that the tonearm is a JELCO SA-100 manufactured for Kenwood. I sent an email to JELCO for any manuals, and Mr. Haruo Uchida, JELCO's sales manager, quickly responded that they did not have any manuals for an OEM tonearm that was over 40 years old. That is no big deal since I was able to figure out how to set the tonearm and cartridge up.
Together with my restored and modified Dynaco SCA-35 amp, I'm enjoying this analog set-up. My next experiment is to try some low-to-medium compliance MC cartridges and Western Electric step-ups.
I found out that the tonearm is a JELCO SA-100 manufactured for Kenwood. I sent an email to JELCO for any manuals, and Mr. Haruo Uchida, JELCO's sales manager, quickly responded that they did not have any manuals for an OEM tonearm that was over 40 years old. That is no big deal since I was able to figure out how to set the tonearm and cartridge up.
Together with my restored and modified Dynaco SCA-35 amp, I'm enjoying this analog set-up. My next experiment is to try some low-to-medium compliance MC cartridges and Western Electric step-ups.
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I've started looking...
...and haven't found anything like your Kenwood.
I suspect the Jelco and the Shure are a nice match. Not sure how an MC will fare though.
How's the SCA-35? That is another piece I thought I'd like rather than the ST70, as it is an integrated (I like integrated amps). Now match that set-up with a nice (and perhaps smallish) full-range loudspeaker set-up (as in a single driver loudspeaker system) and I think you'd have magic.
I am looking for some pieces that punch a few classes above their weight class for a simplified system. No need for an ARC (although I am a little jealous). Oh well, perhaps in another life.
rhing,
the system looks great and great together. If I missed it what speakers are you planning to use with it?
...and haven't found anything like your Kenwood.
I suspect the Jelco and the Shure are a nice match. Not sure how an MC will fare though.
How's the SCA-35? That is another piece I thought I'd like rather than the ST70, as it is an integrated (I like integrated amps). Now match that set-up with a nice (and perhaps smallish) full-range loudspeaker set-up (as in a single driver loudspeaker system) and I think you'd have magic.
I am looking for some pieces that punch a few classes above their weight class for a simplified system. No need for an ARC (although I am a little jealous). Oh well, perhaps in another life.
rhing,
the system looks great and great together. If I missed it what speakers are you planning to use with it?
The Dynaco SCA-35 drives a pair of restored and modified Klipsch Forte II's. I installed new Sonicap Gen I caps and new electrolytic caps in the crossovers, replaced the Phenolic tweeter diaphragms with Titanium diaphragms from Bob Crites, installed new internal 14Ga Copper wiring and Pomona 3770-X Gold-plated Copper 5-way binding posts. I'm quite pleased with this set-up.
I just posted on an SCA-35 thread on this forum regarding my SCA-35 integrated:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/92196-sca-35-dynaco-12.html#post3197714
George at Audio Regenesis has very nice boards for Dynaco gear. I really wanted blank boards to populate them, but I found George's boards to be superior to the blank boards out there, so I went with those even though everything is all soldered in place. I still stuck in some of my faves for caps and resistors.
As for the cartridge, I do like the Shure M97xE MM cartridge a lot. I might consider the JICO SAS tip stylus to upgrade the Shure. I've read a lot of positive feedback on them.
I just posted on an SCA-35 thread on this forum regarding my SCA-35 integrated:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/92196-sca-35-dynaco-12.html#post3197714
George at Audio Regenesis has very nice boards for Dynaco gear. I really wanted blank boards to populate them, but I found George's boards to be superior to the blank boards out there, so I went with those even though everything is all soldered in place. I still stuck in some of my faves for caps and resistors.
As for the cartridge, I do like the Shure M97xE MM cartridge a lot. I might consider the JICO SAS tip stylus to upgrade the Shure. I've read a lot of positive feedback on them.
Klipsch Forte IIs...
I found a pair that were beaten beyond belief, but altogether. I went back to buy them ($200 in a pawn shop) and they were gone .
This whole "vintage" system keeps with my thoughts regarding that New does not necessarily mean Better.
I haven't really been a huge fan of Klipsch loudspeakers, but recently I heard a pair of heavily modified Heresy IIs that were spectacular. They were absolutely open and transparent. In fact, when I can afford to, I will seek out a pair to make (I can find the drivers, and the crossover boards can be rebuilt or made from scratch) or modify a used pair. As almost everything would be changed in the cross-over, and the cabinet would have to be heavily fortified, that may be the way to go. The Heresy speakers were driven by a Quad 405. Unsure of what pre-amp was used. The source was a slightly modified $50 DVD player (I suspect a few caps were replaced, and better RCA connectors were installed, with no fancy op-amp replacements. All wiring was custom built. Two HSU 12" subs were used. I preferred the system without the subs.
I think some 20+ years ago I read a review and comments regarding the "current dumping" amplifiers by Quad (the 405 and 606 I think) . The review/technical article suggested that just maybe Quad had built an "almost" perfect amplifier. This most recent listening experience has confirmed this for me.
rhing: Congrats on the vintage system. I imagine that it gives many folks a fit when the budget is considered (and maybe even not ).
I found a pair that were beaten beyond belief, but altogether. I went back to buy them ($200 in a pawn shop) and they were gone
.This whole "vintage" system keeps with my thoughts regarding that New does not necessarily mean Better.
I haven't really been a huge fan of Klipsch loudspeakers, but recently I heard a pair of heavily modified Heresy IIs that were spectacular. They were absolutely open and transparent. In fact, when I can afford to, I will seek out a pair to make (I can find the drivers, and the crossover boards can be rebuilt or made from scratch) or modify a used pair. As almost everything would be changed in the cross-over, and the cabinet would have to be heavily fortified, that may be the way to go. The Heresy speakers were driven by a Quad 405. Unsure of what pre-amp was used. The source was a slightly modified $50 DVD player (I suspect a few caps were replaced, and better RCA connectors were installed, with no fancy op-amp replacements. All wiring was custom built. Two HSU 12" subs were used. I preferred the system without the subs.
I think some 20+ years ago I read a review and comments regarding the "current dumping" amplifiers by Quad (the 405 and 606 I think) . The review/technical article suggested that just maybe Quad had built an "almost" perfect amplifier. This most recent listening experience has confirmed this for me.
rhing: Congrats on the vintage system. I imagine that it gives many folks a fit when the budget is considered (and maybe even not
).
Thanks to rhing's help I've got a Kenwood PC 350 belt-idler up and running. However it runs a little fast and I don't know why. Tried both stock and LPgear belts, all surfaces are clean and re-greased/oiled. Replaced the .047uf cap across ac wiring. Speed is steady, just a bit fast. I'm stumped.
Anyone got a any suggestions?
Anyone got a any suggestions?
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