Internal arm wire problems - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Analogue Source

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st April 2009, 03:02 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Default Internal arm wire problems

I have some Cardas litz wire (**), bought some years back, which I just dug out to internally re-wire a Rega RB250.

But ...... upon inspection I'm surprised to find that it's considerably stiffer and springier than the stuff I've removed from the Rega, and doesn't seem suitable for internal arm wiring at all - I just don't see how a run of 4 or 5 lengths could be dressed so as not to interfere with arm movement, particularly lateral.

In these pics the Cardas wire is nearest the camera. You can clearly see how much flexier the Rega stuff is once it's unsupported;

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I reckon anyone using the Cardas would experience some degree tracking of issues (whether they realised it or not), and if this is in fact the famous Cardas so commonly recommended and used by modders, I have to wonder how many people are running arms hobbled by it.

Do Cardas make a thinner gauge? IIRC this is supposed to be 33 AWG - it's slightly thicker than the Rega wire (but which still doesn't account for the extra stiffness).

Does anyone know of any other manufacturers? That's to say, affordable stuff - I can't really justify splurging on Van Den Hul right now.

I've sacrificed a perfectly good set of in-ear 'phones (Aiwa) to scavenge the wire, but it turned out be a coaxial configuration with no dialectric around the strands, only insulating/reinforcing fibres between the central 'hot' and surrounding ground (so definitely proper litz then) - not really suitable.

I've heard of people using coil-wire - IOW, single strands of enamelled/laquered copper, but it strikes me as a fragile arrangement (and maybe with a very distinctive sound?).

(**) Another question begged is whether the Cardas I've got IS actually Cardas (hence i've desisted from saying who I bought if from - but they're a well-known supplier of parts for DIY analogue enthusiasts, such as tubes). Ohmmeter readings from the cut ends vs. the outside of the strands confim It is definitely litz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th April 2009, 04:39 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Panicos K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Cardas 33awg is teflon insulated compared to pvc for the rega wires.This together with laquer over the strands make the Cardas stiffer and steeper.I have rewired dozens of regas with it,and never had any problems.I think you should go ahead with your rewiring.Your cardas wires look vey straight so I assume you have bought the plain ones,not the shielded one and stripped it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2009, 04:24 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Thanks for the reply PK,

the wire is indeed plain un-shielded.

I'm still procrastinating about using it, as I believe the effects of arm stiction from any cause on tracking are not necessarily all-or-nothing - possibly anything from very slight to noticable degradation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2009, 05:13 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Panicos K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Yes I agree that sometimes free bearing movement can be more important than wire differences,especially for cartridges with high compliance/low tracking force.In most cases where I have used it in Rega arms,cartridges were MC's with high enough tracking forces.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2009, 05:28 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sofia
Quote:
Originally posted by Aleksunder
I believe the effects of arm stiction from any cause on tracking are not necessarily all-or-nothing - possibly anything from very slight to noticable degradation.

I completely agree with you. Both Cardas and Dicovery wire which i have appear way too stiff for serious tonearm use. Actually any wire with teflon insulation is not ideal. Still, i use Cardas in two of my arms and despite being stiff sounds much better than the original wire. Enamelled copper or silver, or cotton/silk insulated wire seems a much bettter solution.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2009, 12:29 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Quote:
Originally posted by Panicos K
Yes I agree that sometimes free bearing movement can be more important than wire differences,especially for cartridges with high compliance/low tracking force.In most cases where I have used it in Rega arms,cartridges were MC's with high enough tracking forces.
You might be interested (and surprised?) to hear that I intend to try a Decca out with the arm, which might sound crazy, i.e. no chance, but having said that, on a Townshend Rock, whose damper trough might just allow it to work. Worth a try anyway.

However, Decca's have quite high lateral compliance, hence possible issues with lateral binding of the arm, which otherwise has excellent bearings.


Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa



I completely agree with you. Both Cardas and Dicovery wire which i have appear way too stiff for serious tonearm use. Actually any wire with teflon insulation is not ideal. Still, i use Cardas in two of my arms and despite being stiff sounds much better than the original wire. Enamelled copper or silver, or cotton/silk insulated wire seems a much bettter solution.
Glad to hear I'm not alone in my doubts. Do you have any sources for silk insulated litz (in the UK or Europe)?

I could be wrong, but I suspect solid/single strand wire would emphasize all the wrong attributes of a Decca cartridge.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2009, 01:13 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: israel
Try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Litz-tone...3A1%7C294%3A50
Sounds every bit as good as Cardas which it replaced on my linear tracker, but extremely flexible. And ridicuosly cheap too!
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2009, 01:28 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Quote:
Originally posted by livemusic
Try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Litz-tone...3A1%7C294%3A50
Sounds every bit as good as Cardas which it replaced on my linear tracker, but extremely flexible. And ridicuosly cheap too!
Thanks! I happended to be on eBay when you posted.

I notice it has 30 strands - the Cardas wire has far fewer - 6 IIRC, so completely different construction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2009, 02:17 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Panicos K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Cardas has 7 thicker strands.Livemusic recommendation is a very good one.I have bought some of it but not tried it yet.But for flexibility no comments-perfect.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Internal PCB to Wire Connectors ? Jan Dupont Parts 10 16th September 2008 06:01 AM
Internal speaker wire. What do you use? gnugear Full Range 16 28th October 2007 11:46 PM
Internal wire section? Sony Pass Labs 3 26th May 2005 10:16 AM
Internal wire length? enkidu Solid State 1 20th May 2003 02:13 AM
Internal speaker wire steelyjoe Multi-Way 8 22nd December 2002 07:47 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:22 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2