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-   -   Internal arm wire problems (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/142684-internal-arm-wire-problems.html)

Aleksunder 21st April 2009 04:02 PM

Internal arm wire problems
 
I have some Cardas litz wire (**), bought some years back, which I just dug out to internally re-wire a Rega RB250.

But ...... upon inspection I'm surprised to find that it's considerably stiffer and springier than the stuff I've removed from the Rega, and doesn't seem suitable for internal arm wiring at all - I just don't see how a run of 4 or 5 lengths could be dressed so as not to interfere with arm movement, particularly lateral.

In these pics the Cardas wire is nearest the camera. You can clearly see how much flexier the Rega stuff is once it's unsupported;

http://i40.tinypic.com/uykat.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2poccuh.jpg

I reckon anyone using the Cardas would experience some degree tracking of issues (whether they realised it or not), and if this is in fact the famous Cardas so commonly recommended and used by modders, I have to wonder how many people are running arms hobbled by it.

Do Cardas make a thinner gauge? IIRC this is supposed to be 33 AWG - it's slightly thicker than the Rega wire (but which still doesn't account for the extra stiffness).

Does anyone know of any other manufacturers? That's to say, affordable stuff - I can't really justify splurging on Van Den Hul right now.

I've sacrificed a perfectly good set of in-ear 'phones (Aiwa) to scavenge the wire, but it turned out be a coaxial configuration with no dialectric around the strands, only insulating/reinforcing fibres between the central 'hot' and surrounding ground (so definitely proper litz then) - not really suitable.

I've heard of people using coil-wire - IOW, single strands of enamelled/laquered copper, but it strikes me as a fragile arrangement (and maybe with a very distinctive sound?).

(**) Another question begged is whether the Cardas I've got IS actually Cardas (hence i've desisted from saying who I bought if from - but they're a well-known supplier of parts for DIY analogue enthusiasts, such as tubes). Ohmmeter readings from the cut ends vs. the outside of the strands confim It is definitely litz.

Panicos K 26th April 2009 05:39 PM

Cardas 33awg is teflon insulated compared to pvc for the rega wires.This together with laquer over the strands make the Cardas stiffer and steeper.I have rewired dozens of regas with it,and never had any problems.I think you should go ahead with your rewiring.Your cardas wires look vey straight so I assume you have bought the plain ones,not the shielded one and stripped it?

Aleksunder 27th April 2009 05:24 PM

Thanks for the reply PK,

the wire is indeed plain un-shielded.

I'm still procrastinating about using it, as I believe the effects of arm stiction from any cause on tracking are not necessarily all-or-nothing - possibly anything from very slight to noticable degradation.

Panicos K 27th April 2009 06:13 PM

Yes I agree that sometimes free bearing movement can be more important than wire differences,especially for cartridges with high compliance/low tracking force.In most cases where I have used it in Rega arms,cartridges were MC's with high enough tracking forces.

analog_sa 27th April 2009 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aleksunder
I believe the effects of arm stiction from any cause on tracking are not necessarily all-or-nothing - possibly anything from very slight to noticable degradation.

I completely agree with you. Both Cardas and Dicovery wire which i have appear way too stiff for serious tonearm use. Actually any wire with teflon insulation is not ideal. Still, i use Cardas in two of my arms and despite being stiff sounds much better than the original wire. Enamelled copper or silver, or cotton/silk insulated wire seems a much bettter solution.

Aleksunder 28th April 2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panicos K
Yes I agree that sometimes free bearing movement can be more important than wire differences,especially for cartridges with high compliance/low tracking force.In most cases where I have used it in Rega arms,cartridges were MC's with high enough tracking forces.
You might be interested (and surprised?) to hear that I intend to try a Decca out with the arm, which might sound crazy, i.e. no chance, but having said that, on a Townshend Rock, whose damper trough might just allow it to work. Worth a try anyway.

However, Decca's have quite high lateral compliance, hence possible issues with lateral binding of the arm, which otherwise has excellent bearings.


Quote:

Originally posted by analog_sa



I completely agree with you. Both Cardas and Dicovery wire which i have appear way too stiff for serious tonearm use. Actually any wire with teflon insulation is not ideal. Still, i use Cardas in two of my arms and despite being stiff sounds much better than the original wire. Enamelled copper or silver, or cotton/silk insulated wire seems a much bettter solution.

Glad to hear I'm not alone in my doubts. Do you have any sources for silk insulated litz (in the UK or Europe)?

I could be wrong, but I suspect solid/single strand wire would emphasize all the wrong attributes of a Decca cartridge.

livemusic 28th April 2009 02:13 PM

Try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Litz-tone...3A1%7C294%3A50
Sounds every bit as good as Cardas which it replaced on my linear tracker, but extremely flexible. And ridicuosly cheap too!

Aleksunder 28th April 2009 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by livemusic
Try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Litz-tone...3A1%7C294%3A50
Sounds every bit as good as Cardas which it replaced on my linear tracker, but extremely flexible. And ridicuosly cheap too!

Thanks! I happended to be on eBay when you posted.

I notice it has 30 strands - the Cardas wire has far fewer - 6 IIRC, so completely different construction.

Panicos K 28th April 2009 03:17 PM

Cardas has 7 thicker strands.Livemusic recommendation is a very good one.I have bought some of it but not tried it yet.But for flexibility no comments-perfect.


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