Re: Magnet strength
You might want to check out:
http://www.fieldlines.com/section/magnets
as well. I've had a few discussions with the guy who runs wondermagnet.com and he seems fairly knowledgable.
Paul Ebert
mgreene said:Thanks Frank,
Interesting read.
I've had a brain storm however, I will simply harrass a manufacturer for this information
Mike
You might want to check out:
http://www.fieldlines.com/section/magnets
as well. I've had a few discussions with the guy who runs wondermagnet.com and he seems fairly knowledgable.
Paul Ebert
;ktin
How did you fix the string? Knot? Screw?
How much is the distance between the neodyms?
@everybody
since i am german i could read the patent paper of the schröder arm. In this document nearly the whole construction of the bearing is described. It is written in a very scientific language so that i am too lazy/stupid to translate the whole. The drawings show nothing less than the text tells about the basic construction.
It is told that neodym magnets are the best and that the string must be not elastic. Also something about oil dampening is told there, but i think this is not interestning at the moment.
It is described, how the aluminium around the magnets influence the magnetic field to force the arm to good behaviour.
cheers
christian.
How did you fix the string? Knot? Screw?
How much is the distance between the neodyms?
@everybody
since i am german i could read the patent paper of the schröder arm. In this document nearly the whole construction of the bearing is described. It is written in a very scientific language so that i am too lazy/stupid to translate the whole. The drawings show nothing less than the text tells about the basic construction.
It is told that neodym magnets are the best and that the string must be not elastic. Also something about oil dampening is told there, but i think this is not interestning at the moment.
It is described, how the aluminium around the magnets influence the magnetic field to force the arm to good behaviour.
cheers
christian.
german
Christian and Frank,
In regard to the patent, I was just curious to know if there was anything in the claims that wasn't obvious from the drawings.
For instance, some magnet companies make steel holders for disk shaped magnets like these and I wondered if this was a good solution. Now, Christian mentions something in the patent about alumium enhancing the magnetic field. That is the kind of info I am interested in.
BTW: altavista and other translation programs do not do much with long, multisyllable germanic words - so, no help there.
In regard to the distance between the two magnets, this info is in the arm setup instructions on Schroeders website. He writes that the thickness of a business card is the starting point - if the magnets get too close or touch the cartridge will start to skip - anybody planning to use their $7K Clearaudio to test with?
I assume that the string is something like 50 pound test, leader - i.e., fishing line. Leader material is usually much tougher (non-stretch) than regular line.
Regards
Mike
Christian and Frank,
In regard to the patent, I was just curious to know if there was anything in the claims that wasn't obvious from the drawings.
For instance, some magnet companies make steel holders for disk shaped magnets like these and I wondered if this was a good solution. Now, Christian mentions something in the patent about alumium enhancing the magnetic field. That is the kind of info I am interested in.
BTW: altavista and other translation programs do not do much with long, multisyllable germanic words - so, no help there.
In regard to the distance between the two magnets, this info is in the arm setup instructions on Schroeders website. He writes that the thickness of a business card is the starting point - if the magnets get too close or touch the cartridge will start to skip - anybody planning to use their $7K Clearaudio to test with?
I assume that the string is something like 50 pound test, leader - i.e., fishing line. Leader material is usually much tougher (non-stretch) than regular line. Regards
Mike
Just read the patent script briefly. Must study it more carefully tonight,-
aluminium cannot enhance the magnetic field...??
However,- he does mention eddy currents being induced in the bottom alu holder - as a damping mechanism.
People has questioned the possibillity of drilling the Nd Magnets, but the patent script also sketches the use of a drilled upper pole piece on the opposite side of the air gap. This can be drilled to hold the thread...the drawings in the patent script really speaks for themselves..
Fly line backing is indeed a good idea for the string/thread. There is also multifilament fishing lines on the market with incredible strength vs. the line thickness. One brand here in Scandinavia is called "Fire Line", but there shure is alot of others.
aluminium cannot enhance the magnetic field...??
However,- he does mention eddy currents being induced in the bottom alu holder - as a damping mechanism.
People has questioned the possibillity of drilling the Nd Magnets, but the patent script also sketches the use of a drilled upper pole piece on the opposite side of the air gap. This can be drilled to hold the thread...the drawings in the patent script really speaks for themselves..
Fly line backing is indeed a good idea for the string/thread. There is also multifilament fishing lines on the market with incredible strength vs. the line thickness. One brand here in Scandinavia is called "Fire Line", but there shure is alot of others.
Hi everyone,
Yup, it's me(Frank Schröder), the guy who's work by now enjoys the privilege to be copied. No need to worry, I have nothing against DIY enthusiasts, enjoying a few nights in the basement workshop, but, - you guys could have made it alot easier on yourselves if you had contacted me directly. My email and my phonenumber can be found on my "webpage".
One word of caution though. If you think that by mere "copying" the drawings in the patent you will end up with an arm that sounds just like one of my own making is optimistic, putting it mildly. Chances are though, that you will end up with an arm that betters anything commercially available for up to 1000$+. BUT, - the inherent superiority of the bearing design is only one of several aspects that "make" my arms.
Let me remark on some of the points raised in previous posts.
Carbon fibre is a decent material to be used as an armwand but exibit a fairly strong resonant behaviour if used "naked".
Yes, neodym magnets can be drilled(heck, anything can be..)
Very little energy is "drained" via the bearing, you'll have to deal with it differently.
Nah, I won't give away too many of my trade secrets(it would spoil your fun, wouldn't it?;-)
And if anyone decides to turn this into a commercial undertaking it will make my lawyer even more rich and you poorer than you'd believe was possible - sorry, I had to add that(no offense meant).
Enjoy the tinkering but more importantly, enjoy the music once you've succeeded.
Cheers,
Frank
Yup, it's me(Frank Schröder), the guy who's work by now enjoys the privilege to be copied. No need to worry, I have nothing against DIY enthusiasts, enjoying a few nights in the basement workshop, but, - you guys could have made it alot easier on yourselves if you had contacted me directly. My email and my phonenumber can be found on my "webpage".
One word of caution though. If you think that by mere "copying" the drawings in the patent you will end up with an arm that sounds just like one of my own making is optimistic, putting it mildly. Chances are though, that you will end up with an arm that betters anything commercially available for up to 1000$+. BUT, - the inherent superiority of the bearing design is only one of several aspects that "make" my arms.
Let me remark on some of the points raised in previous posts.
Carbon fibre is a decent material to be used as an armwand but exibit a fairly strong resonant behaviour if used "naked".
Yes, neodym magnets can be drilled(heck, anything can be..)
Very little energy is "drained" via the bearing, you'll have to deal with it differently.
Nah, I won't give away too many of my trade secrets(it would spoil your fun, wouldn't it?;-)
And if anyone decides to turn this into a commercial undertaking it will make my lawyer even more rich and you poorer than you'd believe was possible - sorry, I had to add that(no offense meant).
Enjoy the tinkering but more importantly, enjoy the music once you've succeeded.
Cheers,
Frank
Hello to everybody,
underneath the lower magnet and above the upper one there shall be discs of high permeability (like frank schroeder wrote in his patent) to increase magnetic field. Therefore those steel cups to hold the magnets one of you mentioned wouldn't be a bad idea. The aluminium's influence to the magnetic field ist more an influence of the magnetic field to the aluminium to force it into its right position/to dampen movement.
So the aluminium won't enhance the magnetic field.
Thank you for the information concerning the distance between the magnets.
For the string, a guitar string may also be used, but must be dampened then. Schroeder wrote that where the string is attached to the arm there should be a cup that will carry some dampening oil.
What advantages/disadvantaghes do you see in using One string or two strings (schroeder did both)...
@Frank Schroeder
I think it is better for us to figure out everything by ourselves. First, to learn. Second, we might (but probably will not) solve problems in a new way, which you can use for your arms. But this is worlds away, now.
If anybody would be interested in producing your design commercially, it would be no good idea anyway. I cannot imagine that it is possible to build those arms really cheaper than you do in good quality. So why should anyone buy them? That means: alles im grünen Bereich.
I attach a scetch that shows just ONE possible way to build it as described in the patent paper and I did construe it.
Cheers
Christian.
underneath the lower magnet and above the upper one there shall be discs of high permeability (like frank schroeder wrote in his patent) to increase magnetic field. Therefore those steel cups to hold the magnets one of you mentioned wouldn't be a bad idea. The aluminium's influence to the magnetic field ist more an influence of the magnetic field to the aluminium to force it into its right position/to dampen movement.
So the aluminium won't enhance the magnetic field.
Thank you for the information concerning the distance between the magnets.
For the string, a guitar string may also be used, but must be dampened then. Schroeder wrote that where the string is attached to the arm there should be a cup that will carry some dampening oil.
What advantages/disadvantaghes do you see in using One string or two strings (schroeder did both)...
@Frank Schroeder
I think it is better for us to figure out everything by ourselves. First, to learn. Second, we might (but probably will not) solve problems in a new way, which you can use for your arms. But this is worlds away, now.
If anybody would be interested in producing your design commercially, it would be no good idea anyway. I cannot imagine that it is possible to build those arms really cheaper than you do in good quality. So why should anyone buy them? That means: alles im grünen Bereich.
I attach a scetch that shows just ONE possible way to build it as described in the patent paper and I did construe it.
Cheers
Christian.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Schroeder's response (?)
Hi all,
I sent Frank a friendly email, offline through DIY, as soon as I saw his post. It is possible he didn't get it. Frank are you really willing to correspond with us or did you sign on mainly to inform us of your patent rights?
BTW: It should be apparent that very few of those who can really afford such equipment would waste their time trying to build it.
Nice drawing Christian - and thanks everybody for pointing out my poorly chosen word - "enhance". Even I know that Al is non-magnetic.
regards
Mike
Hi all,
I sent Frank a friendly email, offline through DIY, as soon as I saw his post. It is possible he didn't get it. Frank are you really willing to correspond with us or did you sign on mainly to inform us of your patent rights?
BTW: It should be apparent that very few of those who can really afford such equipment would waste their time trying to build it.
Nice drawing Christian - and thanks everybody for pointing out my poorly chosen word - "enhance". Even I know that Al is non-magnetic.
regards
Mike
Hello Mike,
I did get your mail, please see my private response for an explanation why I didn't respond any sooner, sorry again..
BTW, informing you guys of the patent wasn't neccessary, someone had already posted the proper link. Previous (negative) experiences led me to this remark, I won't mention it again.
The drawing is very good indeed, leaves out some important details though. And the shape of the upper polepiece is not quite correct. Build it and tell me if you managed to achieve equal VTF and azimuth from beginning till the end of the record...
Gotta run, pick up some groceries...
Have a great weekend.
I'll be back,
Frank
I did get your mail, please see my private response for an explanation why I didn't respond any sooner, sorry again..
BTW, informing you guys of the patent wasn't neccessary, someone had already posted the proper link. Previous (negative) experiences led me to this remark, I won't mention it again.
The drawing is very good indeed, leaves out some important details though. And the shape of the upper polepiece is not quite correct. Build it and tell me if you managed to achieve equal VTF and azimuth from beginning till the end of the record...
Gotta run, pick up some groceries...
Have a great weekend.
I'll be back,
Frank
Mr. Schroeder
Dear Mr. Schroeder,
It is very sad that you do not see DIY Audio things the way other designers do, like Nelson Pass to mention only one.
The reason of existence of the DIY Audio community is sharing of knowledge of the so called HI-END equipment, that are most of the times too overpriced (and many of us can not afford) and NOT to solve anyones financial problems.
It would be great if you could only share your knowlegde with the DIY Audio community instead of terrorise it with lawyers and courts. I bet that you started your business as a DIYer.
Regards K.
Keep an open mind. It helps. (I lent this from someone in here)
Dear Mr. Schroeder,
It is very sad that you do not see DIY Audio things the way other designers do, like Nelson Pass to mention only one.
The reason of existence of the DIY Audio community is sharing of knowledge of the so called HI-END equipment, that are most of the times too overpriced (and many of us can not afford) and NOT to solve anyones financial problems.
It would be great if you could only share your knowlegde with the DIY Audio community instead of terrorise it with lawyers and courts. I bet that you started your business as a DIYer.
Regards K.
Keep an open mind. It helps. (I lent this from someone in here)
TONEARM AMD PATENTS...
Hi,
This maybe be true but the fields of operation are quite different, tonearms and amps are hardly comparable.
While I admire Nelson for his approach, I do not expect a tonearm designer to adopt the same attitude.
The markets are just too different.
Yes, it would be great but it seems to me that your understanding of business is ....errrr.... a little limited.
I fail to see where Frank Schroeder threatened with lawyers, he said he had negative experiences in the past and I'm sure he's not the only one out there...
I often find myself in non-disclosure situations too, if I break that agreement I can just as well say goodbye to my future...
Surely it's up to Frank to decide whether he's willing to unveil anything about his design or not?
Crickey, count yourself lucky he responded at all.
You seem to take it for granted that any design out there falls into the public domain as long as it is for DIY purposes, unfortunately for you that is just not the case.
Frankly, I regret your response and if it were to be my designs I would refrain from any futher help.
I don't mean to sound harsh, just want you to look at things from a designers perspective, hope you don't mind.
Cheers,
Hi,
This maybe be true but the fields of operation are quite different, tonearms and amps are hardly comparable.
While I admire Nelson for his approach, I do not expect a tonearm designer to adopt the same attitude.
The markets are just too different.
Yes, it would be great but it seems to me that your understanding of business is ....errrr.... a little limited.
I fail to see where Frank Schroeder threatened with lawyers, he said he had negative experiences in the past and I'm sure he's not the only one out there...
I often find myself in non-disclosure situations too, if I break that agreement I can just as well say goodbye to my future...
Surely it's up to Frank to decide whether he's willing to unveil anything about his design or not?
Crickey, count yourself lucky he responded at all.
You seem to take it for granted that any design out there falls into the public domain as long as it is for DIY purposes, unfortunately for you that is just not the case.
Frankly, I regret your response and if it were to be my designs I would refrain from any futher help.
I don't mean to sound harsh, just want you to look at things from a designers perspective, hope you don't mind.
Cheers,
Dear Konstantin,
It was never my intention to terrorize anyone with my lawyers, nor, as I said before, do I have anything against the DIY community. As you correctly guessed I did start out as a DIYer - essentially true for 90% of the "real" high end companies.
I replied to mgreene in private explaining why/how previous negative experiences with other manufacturers have raised my caution levels, I prefer to refrain from public namecalling so don't make me elaborate on this any further.
I'll happily provide you with advice but please don't expect me to publish exact drawings, measurements, material sources,etc... As someone here had said: "we'd like to find out on our own" - after all isn't that where half of the fun is?
The topic of (over)pricing has been discussed many times on each and every audio forum. What it comes down to is that certain components are very service sensitive(turntables: matching, setup...) whereas others are less so(amps, cd-players). Believe me, very few people know how to set up a turntable so that it performs 100%. Most if not ALL distributors/dealers won't even touch a component that leaves the competition in the dust if the margin on it doesn't allow them to cover their expenses. Not going that route simply excludes the option to make Hifi a living.
And there are many more people out there who couldn't tell an amp from a tuner than those who debate the virtues of teflon versus cotton as an insulator.
BTW, which other commercial designers do you mean besides Nelson Pass who publish blue prints of their original/recent work on the net?
Frank(fdegrove) was right on the money(pun intended) that - not only in my case - agreements between me and other manufacturers/distributors exist whereby I just can't give out or even license my product to someone else because they depend on me as a supplier and also want to take advantage of the "exclusive" nature of the product(strong point in this industry). It might not be to my liking but that's the nature of the game.
Ask me questions about my arms - and no one has so far - and I'll answer them as thoroughly as it is possible - see above.
If I didn't have an open mind I'd be building gimballed arms ;-))
Cheers,
Frank Schröder
P.S.: I much prefer to comment on technical instead of business issues in the future.
It was never my intention to terrorize anyone with my lawyers, nor, as I said before, do I have anything against the DIY community. As you correctly guessed I did start out as a DIYer - essentially true for 90% of the "real" high end companies.
I replied to mgreene in private explaining why/how previous negative experiences with other manufacturers have raised my caution levels, I prefer to refrain from public namecalling so don't make me elaborate on this any further.
I'll happily provide you with advice but please don't expect me to publish exact drawings, measurements, material sources,etc... As someone here had said: "we'd like to find out on our own" - after all isn't that where half of the fun is?
The topic of (over)pricing has been discussed many times on each and every audio forum. What it comes down to is that certain components are very service sensitive(turntables: matching, setup...) whereas others are less so(amps, cd-players). Believe me, very few people know how to set up a turntable so that it performs 100%. Most if not ALL distributors/dealers won't even touch a component that leaves the competition in the dust if the margin on it doesn't allow them to cover their expenses. Not going that route simply excludes the option to make Hifi a living.
And there are many more people out there who couldn't tell an amp from a tuner than those who debate the virtues of teflon versus cotton as an insulator.
BTW, which other commercial designers do you mean besides Nelson Pass who publish blue prints of their original/recent work on the net?
Frank(fdegrove) was right on the money(pun intended) that - not only in my case - agreements between me and other manufacturers/distributors exist whereby I just can't give out or even license my product to someone else because they depend on me as a supplier and also want to take advantage of the "exclusive" nature of the product(strong point in this industry). It might not be to my liking but that's the nature of the game.
Ask me questions about my arms - and no one has so far - and I'll answer them as thoroughly as it is possible - see above.
If I didn't have an open mind I'd be building gimballed arms ;-))
Cheers,
Frank Schröder
P.S.: I much prefer to comment on technical instead of business issues in the future.
technical question
Hi
@Frank Schröder
Here goes the first(?) technical question: We saw your arms having one ore two strings. (I know its everytime one string, but the arrangement looks like two...)
For the two string version I see the advantage of a low "bearing point" as well as I think it is more comfortable to replace a string. And the neodyms do not need to be drilled.
For the one string arrangement I see advantages in easier set-up etc.
I, personally, tend to build the two-string type because I expect it to be done easier. Any warnings? What chose you? why?
And: Do you want to tell us something about the string?
I noticed you using a different shape of magnet. I cannot really understand, why it would be worse using two cylindrical ones. Agreed, a ball magnet with the center exactly at the "bearing point" would be the best, especially when having warped records. But I see no changing VTF when turning the magnets around their identical axis.
@ all
Prices. Yes, some products are very overpriced. But one must pay not only the material. If someone wants/has to live from such a business, there are some things that must be paid: Development, distribution, office and workshop rent; machines, taxes and so on...
Recently I made that experience when lathing counterweights for Rega arms like Expressimo Audio does. It seems that they want a lot of money for just a piece of steel. But when I startded to lathe these weights by my own I understood....
MfG
Christian.
Hi
@Frank Schröder
Here goes the first(?) technical question: We saw your arms having one ore two strings. (I know its everytime one string, but the arrangement looks like two...)
For the two string version I see the advantage of a low "bearing point" as well as I think it is more comfortable to replace a string. And the neodyms do not need to be drilled.
For the one string arrangement I see advantages in easier set-up etc.
I, personally, tend to build the two-string type because I expect it to be done easier. Any warnings? What chose you? why?
And: Do you want to tell us something about the string?
I noticed you using a different shape of magnet. I cannot really understand, why it would be worse using two cylindrical ones. Agreed, a ball magnet with the center exactly at the "bearing point" would be the best, especially when having warped records. But I see no changing VTF when turning the magnets around their identical axis.
@ all
Prices. Yes, some products are very overpriced. But one must pay not only the material. If someone wants/has to live from such a business, there are some things that must be paid: Development, distribution, office and workshop rent; machines, taxes and so on...
Recently I made that experience when lathing counterweights for Rega arms like Expressimo Audio does. It seems that they want a lot of money for just a piece of steel. But when I startded to lathe these weights by my own I understood....
MfG
Christian.
Hello Christian,
The bearing point in the single thread version can be almost as low as in the two-thread arm. But the counterweight would then have to be only ever so slighly eccentric to avoid changing VTF when altering VTA(or when playing warped records).
The initial reason for the two-thread version was that in 1980 when I built the first such arm, no Neodym magnets were available to me and I had to use Samarium-Cobalt which takes up more space as you know. It is also more brittle and the two-thread design encloses(protects) the upper magnet entirely apart from offering more space for the magnet.
The single-thread design is not only simpler to set up, it also offers two, more crucial advantages:
a less mass-ive armwand meaning less energy storage(of energy fed by the cart into the armwand). This is a common problem with most unipivot arms(you need to mass load the bearing to avoid bearing chatter).
a shorter thread means less susceptability to airborne vibration, also less initial stretch.
The execution of the two-thread design is simpler though! When experimenting with different thread materials it makes it a lot easier to exchange threads.
Do not use a monofilament but one of the modern "super" fibers. The knots are the real problem since the surface of the new multifilaments is extremely hard and "slippery". If you're a fisherman you know which knots are best used in this application.
Two cylindrical magnets wouldn't be a problem - if only the suppliers would deliver "perfect" shape magnets. But, as you will find out, any imperfection(like a cylinder with a face that's, say, at an 88° angle to the vertical axis - should be 90° of course..) will result in a uneven distribution of fluxlines in the gap, aka uneven VTF and or azimuth. BTW, fluxline density is highest at the edges, not the center of the magnetic gap.
(A) semi-sphere or ball shaped magnet(s) on the other hand do(es)n't offer the same flux density(attracting force) - using magnets of the same volume.
About overpricing: You forgot to mention the cost of a patent. One needs to sell quite a few arms before only that expense is covered...
Hi Konstantin,
So how does your arm perform in comparison to what you were running before(which arm was that?)
All the best,
Frank Schröder
The bearing point in the single thread version can be almost as low as in the two-thread arm. But the counterweight would then have to be only ever so slighly eccentric to avoid changing VTF when altering VTA(or when playing warped records).
The initial reason for the two-thread version was that in 1980 when I built the first such arm, no Neodym magnets were available to me and I had to use Samarium-Cobalt which takes up more space as you know. It is also more brittle and the two-thread design encloses(protects) the upper magnet entirely apart from offering more space for the magnet.
The single-thread design is not only simpler to set up, it also offers two, more crucial advantages:
a less mass-ive armwand meaning less energy storage(of energy fed by the cart into the armwand). This is a common problem with most unipivot arms(you need to mass load the bearing to avoid bearing chatter).
a shorter thread means less susceptability to airborne vibration, also less initial stretch.
The execution of the two-thread design is simpler though! When experimenting with different thread materials it makes it a lot easier to exchange threads.
Do not use a monofilament but one of the modern "super" fibers. The knots are the real problem since the surface of the new multifilaments is extremely hard and "slippery". If you're a fisherman you know which knots are best used in this application.
Two cylindrical magnets wouldn't be a problem - if only the suppliers would deliver "perfect" shape magnets. But, as you will find out, any imperfection(like a cylinder with a face that's, say, at an 88° angle to the vertical axis - should be 90° of course..) will result in a uneven distribution of fluxlines in the gap, aka uneven VTF and or azimuth. BTW, fluxline density is highest at the edges, not the center of the magnetic gap.
(A) semi-sphere or ball shaped magnet(s) on the other hand do(es)n't offer the same flux density(attracting force) - using magnets of the same volume.
About overpricing: You forgot to mention the cost of a patent. One needs to sell quite a few arms before only that expense is covered...
Hi Konstantin,
So how does your arm perform in comparison to what you were running before(which arm was that?)
All the best,
Frank Schröder
............
Dear Mr. Schroeder,
The arm i used before the construction of the clone was a Moerch UP-4, which was easily "bitten" by the clone.
Well, the UP-4 was sold and a DP-6 is on the way.
I also made some comparison tests with Simon Yorke's unipivot with the same results.
I'm very curious to compare the clone "side by side" with an SME-V.
Best regards
K.
Dear Mr. Schroeder,
The arm i used before the construction of the clone was a Moerch UP-4, which was easily "bitten" by the clone.
Well, the UP-4 was sold and a DP-6 is on the way.
I also made some comparison tests with Simon Yorke's unipivot with the same results.
I'm very curious to compare the clone "side by side" with an SME-V.
Best regards
K.
Re: ............
Konstantin,
I am not Mr.Schroeder, but as you might have seen from my test report on TNT web site, I have some Pluto tonearms (I have an older 2A and a newer 8A) and I prefer listening to my Schroeder, though the Plutos have their own strong sides, especially in the bass region. I also once had an SME V. The Schroeder is way better than the SME. In fact I rate the SME V not much better than the Moerch UP4, which is an excellent affordable tonearm.
regards,
Hartmut
konstantin said:
Konstantin,
I am not Mr.Schroeder, but as you might have seen from my test report on TNT web site, I have some Pluto tonearms (I have an older 2A and a newer 8A) and I prefer listening to my Schroeder, though the Plutos have their own strong sides, especially in the bass region. I also once had an SME V. The Schroeder is way better than the SME. In fact I rate the SME V not much better than the Moerch UP4, which is an excellent affordable tonearm.
regards,
Hartmut