Well, I know for me, it will be CD replay. So you know where thats capped at. The DAC at the pc here is fed by USB, so thats 16/48 I think. Of course get it as high a resolution as you can, but in my case at least it will be downsampled to those levels anyway.
The P3 sounded very good tonight with John Coltrane repressing on "ballads". What a great record.
Sound is more smoother than last night, kinda more in control of stuff, but definitely still with that extra detail - I was hearing groove noise on that album that I know I didn't hear on the kit one.
If this keeps going the way I think its going, its a win win situation.
Fran
The P3 sounded very good tonight with John Coltrane repressing on "ballads". What a great record.
Sound is more smoother than last night, kinda more in control of stuff, but definitely still with that extra detail - I was hearing groove noise on that album that I know I didn't hear on the kit one.
If this keeps going the way I think its going, its a win win situation.
Fran
Thanks, just what I was looking for.
readme.txt
If you can read the file above, we are in business, and I'll get to work making some recordings.
readme.txt
If you can read the file above, we are in business, and I'll get to work making some recordings.
I used Audacity to make the recordings, as 96 kHz 32bit working files (from 96 khz 24 bit samples), and exported it down to a 16bit 44.1kHz.
I noticed that there was a slight channel imbalance, or so it seemed, so I adjusted the channel gain to fix that and at the same time level match to the original. So the wav. voltage data is 1:1 what I get from my Phonoclone. There is no clipping. Since I'm working at 32 bit resolution during the editing there is no bit error from the scaling, either.
Tonights offering for your listening pleasure is Al Stewart "On The Border" from Year of The Cat album (Arista records).
The file is 32 MB and the track is 3m16s long.
On_The_Border_matched_44kHz_16bit.wav
Sadly by the time it's hacked down to 44/16 it's a very pale shadow of the high resolution digital master. That master, though, is a surprisingly good copy of the original. Even the exported 16 bit 96kHz PCM is pretty decent. It's dropping the sampling rate that kills it.
I noticed that there was a slight channel imbalance, or so it seemed, so I adjusted the channel gain to fix that and at the same time level match to the original. So the wav. voltage data is 1:1 what I get from my Phonoclone. There is no clipping. Since I'm working at 32 bit resolution during the editing there is no bit error from the scaling, either.
Tonights offering for your listening pleasure is Al Stewart "On The Border" from Year of The Cat album (Arista records).
The file is 32 MB and the track is 3m16s long.
On_The_Border_matched_44kHz_16bit.wav
Sadly by the time it's hacked down to 44/16 it's a very pale shadow of the high resolution digital master. That master, though, is a surprisingly good copy of the original. Even the exported 16 bit 96kHz PCM is pretty decent. It's dropping the sampling rate that kills it.
Regarding the power transformer,if I remember correctly when I built the first version of the PhonoClone, if using a 12Vac transformer of 35VA, the transfo light load of the PhonoClone and its own regulation (or lack of) produce a secondary voltage way higher than 12Vac
This higher voltage was causing in the LM317/337 supply version and over heat of the regulators. This is why I settled on lower voltage transformer, but with still high VA. If I remember it used 8Vac, 48VA Hammond model 229D16 split bobbin transformer.
Is it still a good choice for the PhonoClone3 to use such a higher secondary voltage transformer (12V,35VA)? Will it cause a problem with the new regulator (over heat,etc), or is it needed by the new design?
Out of curiosity, with is your AC voltage reading at the secondary output?
Thanks in advance.
This higher voltage was causing in the LM317/337 supply version and over heat of the regulators. This is why I settled on lower voltage transformer, but with still high VA. If I remember it used 8Vac, 48VA Hammond model 229D16 split bobbin transformer.
Is it still a good choice for the PhonoClone3 to use such a higher secondary voltage transformer (12V,35VA)? Will it cause a problem with the new regulator (over heat,etc), or is it needed by the new design?
Out of curiosity, with is your AC voltage reading at the secondary output?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Sylvain,
I am using 2 x 12V transformers as dual mono 50VA each. AC sec voltage is ~12V or so, maybe 13 even. After rectification (no load) I get about 16-17VDC and I don't get any heat at all off either the LM317/337 (phonoclone or VSPS) or the opamps in the phonoclone 3. In fact in my VSPS I used TO92 package LM337 and they never get anymore than barely warm.
Don't know what would be making your regulators get hot.
Fran
I am using 2 x 12V transformers as dual mono 50VA each. AC sec voltage is ~12V or so, maybe 13 even. After rectification (no load) I get about 16-17VDC and I don't get any heat at all off either the LM317/337 (phonoclone or VSPS) or the opamps in the phonoclone 3. In fact in my VSPS I used TO92 package LM337 and they never get anymore than barely warm.
Don't know what would be making your regulators get hot.
Fran
Tonight's listening is a short sample of Wind of Change, by the BeeGees, from the Main Course album (RSO). There is a 16 bit 44.1 kHz wav file...
Beegees_sample_16_44.wav
and, a very special treat, a 24 bit 96 kHz version too!
Beegees_sample_24_96.wav
(to conserve bandwidth, I have deleted the Al Stewart file from yesterday. I'm not confident it was quite right anyway.)
@Algar-emi: you must have hooked up the transformer incorrectly. 12VAC secondaries will give 12-13, max 14 VAC unloaded. The DC voltage will measure about 16-17 V and the regulator (old or new) will dissipate about ~0.1 W, not enough to even get it remotely warm.
Beegees_sample_16_44.wav
and, a very special treat, a 24 bit 96 kHz version too!
Beegees_sample_24_96.wav
(to conserve bandwidth, I have deleted the Al Stewart file from yesterday. I'm not confident it was quite right anyway.)
@Algar-emi: you must have hooked up the transformer incorrectly. 12VAC secondaries will give 12-13, max 14 VAC unloaded. The DC voltage will measure about 16-17 V and the regulator (old or new) will dissipate about ~0.1 W, not enough to even get it remotely warm.
Ok, I am gradually getting the hang of this recording thing. Sorry, the Beegees tracks are L-R reversed, but nothing worse than that.
Next and last for the night, some Mozart, a short extract from the Piano Concerto no 21 in C major, Geza Anda at the piano, from a 1967? 1968? DG recording for the Swedish film "Elvira Madigan" (no, I haven't seen it either)...
In 16/44,
ElviraMadigan_sample_16_44.wav
and 24/96,
ElviraMadigan_sample_24_96.wav
Look, at the risk of seeming snobbish here, let me just say this again: though the 44kHz stuff is pretty much rubbish, the 96 kHz wavs are actually a reasonably decent approximation in both tone, detail level, and sense of space, of the original analog signal. Fair enough to make a judgment, I feel, even if it does lack the sense of air, delicacy and liveliness of the direct-to-LP source. The difference is more apparent here on the classical track, than with the BeeGees track above.
Next and last for the night, some Mozart, a short extract from the Piano Concerto no 21 in C major, Geza Anda at the piano, from a 1967? 1968? DG recording for the Swedish film "Elvira Madigan" (no, I haven't seen it either)...
In 16/44,
ElviraMadigan_sample_16_44.wav
and 24/96,
ElviraMadigan_sample_24_96.wav
Look, at the risk of seeming snobbish here, let me just say this again: though the 44kHz stuff is pretty much rubbish, the 96 kHz wavs are actually a reasonably decent approximation in both tone, detail level, and sense of space, of the original analog signal. Fair enough to make a judgment, I feel, even if it does lack the sense of air, delicacy and liveliness of the direct-to-LP source. The difference is more apparent here on the classical track, than with the BeeGees track above.
Is there anything wrong with using a overkill power supply for this preamp? It is in a seperate enc anyway so i was thinking i may aswell go for it.
I was thinking about one of these http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma22/
I was thinking about one of these http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma22/
That's a regulator + rectifier, not a power supply. And it's designed to for a power amplifier.
It's a humongous version of the Xreg, - conventional reference and a discrete error amplifier instead of an op-amp - but it serves the same function. You can use one or the other, but no need for both.
The power supply, what is external to the phonoclone 3 board, is just fuse transformer diodes. Or mine is. It's the same one I use with my gainclone, shown in the pic below. 160 VA 2x12VAC Plitron toroid.
It's a humongous version of the Xreg, - conventional reference and a discrete error amplifier instead of an op-amp - but it serves the same function. You can use one or the other, but no need for both.
The power supply, what is external to the phonoclone 3 board, is just fuse transformer diodes. Or mine is. It's the same one I use with my gainclone, shown in the pic below. 160 VA 2x12VAC Plitron toroid.
Attachments
Okay, i will go the unregulated option if that works out fine for other people! Cheaper!
I see most people are using 2 cases, but i would really like to use a 2u case and include the power supply. I could use a encapsulated transformer and then build a little box for it out of copper sheeting.
I see most people are using 2 cases, but i would really like to use a 2u case and include the power supply. I could use a encapsulated transformer and then build a little box for it out of copper sheeting.
@rhysh: Its not the transformer messing around with the phono stage electronics, so much as the transformer messing around with your cartridge. Not as big a deal with MC, but with my old Grados it was awful. You want the phonostage close to the turntable, but you want the transformer as far away as possible. ergo, two chassis solution is sensible.
If a single chassis is more convenient for, there is really no reason not to do so, just keep the toroid at one end, the boards at the opposite end.
You may wish to lift the earth connection, though, it may cause you grief...
/R
If a single chassis is more convenient for, there is really no reason not to do so, just keep the toroid at one end, the boards at the opposite end.
You may wish to lift the earth connection, though, it may cause you grief...
/R
More BeeGees,
Nights on Broadway, 16bit 44.1kHz
Nights on Broadway 16-44.wav
and the CD version for comparison,
Nights on Broadway CD version.wav
Nights on Broadway, 16bit 44.1kHz
Nights on Broadway 16-44.wav
and the CD version for comparison,
Nights on Broadway CD version.wav
Well, I hope you all had fun listening, and that it gave people at least an impression of the Phonoclone 3. If nothing else, you can see it's hum and noise free and comparable (please say better!) to the CD.
I'm signing off the experiment with two bonus tracks. In FLAC format this time so I can slip the files under the 100MB upload limit of the hosting site while keeping the quality at 24bit 96kHz.
Bach / Well tempered clavier : Glen Gould -
Glen_Gould_Well_Tempered_2496FLAC.flac
Carpenters : Goodbye to Love -
Goobye_to_Love_2496_FLAC.flac
I'm signing off the experiment with two bonus tracks. In FLAC format this time so I can slip the files under the 100MB upload limit of the hosting site while keeping the quality at 24bit 96kHz.
Bach / Well tempered clavier : Glen Gould -
Glen_Gould_Well_Tempered_2496FLAC.flac
Carpenters : Goodbye to Love -
Goobye_to_Love_2496_FLAC.flac
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.