I am fairly new to vinyl replay. I am just completing a DIY phono-stage, details here
Hopefully that should be up and running by the end of the day.
My TT is a Technics SL120, combined with an SME Series III. I have read pretty much nothing but bad things about this tonearm, but it's what I have and I'd like to run with it for a while. Oh and my cartridge is a Grade Prestige Gold.
Looking at the knife edge "bearing", I can see why this may rattle! Could I seal off the V and put some sort of fluid in the little troughs to damp vibration?
I have also been told that adding mass to the inside of the arm wand will also help, any suggestions on what to use?
Oh, I am just completing a rewire of the entire arm with some Pure Silver wire, just what I had handy and I thought I'd experiment.
Any suggestions welcome.
Regards, Lee.
Hopefully that should be up and running by the end of the day.
My TT is a Technics SL120, combined with an SME Series III. I have read pretty much nothing but bad things about this tonearm, but it's what I have and I'd like to run with it for a while. Oh and my cartridge is a Grade Prestige Gold.
Looking at the knife edge "bearing", I can see why this may rattle! Could I seal off the V and put some sort of fluid in the little troughs to damp vibration?
I have also been told that adding mass to the inside of the arm wand will also help, any suggestions on what to use?
Oh, I am just completing a rewire of the entire arm with some Pure Silver wire, just what I had handy and I thought I'd experiment.
Any suggestions welcome.
Regards, Lee.
Oops, I forgot the pic!!
http://www.diyhi-fi.co.uk/images/system/SME S3 Knife Edge 1.jpg
Regards, Lee.
http://www.diyhi-fi.co.uk/images/system/SME S3 Knife Edge 1.jpg
Regards, Lee.
Thomo
1. Do you have the lead ballast weights that come with the arm? I have a suspicion that people who don't like the arm possibly do not have the full compliment of accessories that comes with it. Those lead weights are meant for adjusting the arm's effective mass. Whatever the compliance of the cartridge, you should add or subtract mass to/from the arm so that the effective mass is right for the cartridge. Download the manual from Vinylengine.com. There are many adjustments to be made to this arm (I can think of 6) but it is quite easy, surprisingly.
2. Does your arm actually rattle? Push/pull it gently back and forth to test (not up or down).
I have owned a Series III arm, and it had all accessories and original packaging. I don't share the vew that it is junk.
1. Do you have the lead ballast weights that come with the arm? I have a suspicion that people who don't like the arm possibly do not have the full compliment of accessories that comes with it. Those lead weights are meant for adjusting the arm's effective mass. Whatever the compliance of the cartridge, you should add or subtract mass to/from the arm so that the effective mass is right for the cartridge. Download the manual from Vinylengine.com. There are many adjustments to be made to this arm (I can think of 6) but it is quite easy, surprisingly.
2. Does your arm actually rattle? Push/pull it gently back and forth to test (not up or down).
I have owned a Series III arm, and it had all accessories and original packaging. I don't share the vew that it is junk.
I really don't know if I have all of the weights. My dad gave me the turntable and arm after having it in his attic for twenty years. The arm originally had a Shure V15 III, which I no longer have.
I do believe that the arm/cartridge came as a package, and that extra weights could be bought from SME.
The arm doesn't actually rattle when pushed back and forth.
Cheers, Lee.
I do believe that the arm/cartridge came as a package, and that extra weights could be bought from SME.
The arm doesn't actually rattle when pushed back and forth.
Cheers, Lee.
I dont think its junk
Hi All / Thomo,
I have recently bought one of these arms, I must say I am impressed with it. I also have a Grado Gold cart. This doesn't work so well with the SME, it needs a higher compliance cart to get the best from it. I have an AT33PTG fitted and this works very well indeed, the best upgrade to my system by far.
The only problem I have is an intermittent connection from the arm tube wires;
Thomo, could you give me some tips on rewiring this arm? A mini HowTo would be much appreciated.
You might also be interested in this thread, reviews from people how have owned the SME111.
http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Tone Arms/S.M.E/3009 IIIs/vinyl/357744.html
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi All / Thomo,
I have recently bought one of these arms, I must say I am impressed with it. I also have a Grado Gold cart. This doesn't work so well with the SME, it needs a higher compliance cart to get the best from it. I have an AT33PTG fitted and this works very well indeed, the best upgrade to my system by far.
The only problem I have is an intermittent connection from the arm tube wires;
Thomo, could you give me some tips on rewiring this arm? A mini HowTo would be much appreciated.
You might also be interested in this thread, reviews from people how have owned the SME111.
http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Tone Arms/S.M.E/3009 IIIs/vinyl/357744.html
Hope this helps
Ian
I have had - and have - several tonearms, including the objectively (as tested with various testrecords) lousy rega 250, modded.
I just like the sme 3, when when set up properly it as as good or better as any of the other sme 2 arms I have and had, as good as the MG1 airbearing arm, and allows for excellent adjustments that no other arm permits.
Just don't know why negative reactions?
I operate it with a denon dl 110, and it performs flawlessly on that arm with nearly flat FR, excellent tracking to max. level , excellent controlled sibilants etc. as per test records I have put it through.
Yes, and only a good test record can tell you what an arm is about.
I just like the sme 3, when when set up properly it as as good or better as any of the other sme 2 arms I have and had, as good as the MG1 airbearing arm, and allows for excellent adjustments that no other arm permits.
Just don't know why negative reactions?
I operate it with a denon dl 110, and it performs flawlessly on that arm with nearly flat FR, excellent tracking to max. level , excellent controlled sibilants etc. as per test records I have put it through.
Yes, and only a good test record can tell you what an arm is about.
I've owned an SME III (and a 2 which I still have in a box) and a number of other arms. The III was specifically designed to work with high compliance mm cartridges.
Adding or subtracting the lead weights of the counterweight does not make it into a higher mass arm - it simply reduces the moment of inertia by effectively keeping the counterweight as close to the bearing assembly as possible; which is what SME intended. The same feature is available on their current arms.
A test record is not the best way of testing an arm - pretty much all it can do is tell you whether the arm mass is well matched to the compliance of the cartridge.
The SME III is not junk, but compared to more rigid modern constructions it lacks 'attack' and extension at both frequency extremes. However, it is very nicely made and looks cool.
Adding or subtracting the lead weights of the counterweight does not make it into a higher mass arm - it simply reduces the moment of inertia by effectively keeping the counterweight as close to the bearing assembly as possible; which is what SME intended. The same feature is available on their current arms.
A test record is not the best way of testing an arm - pretty much all it can do is tell you whether the arm mass is well matched to the compliance of the cartridge.
The SME III is not junk, but compared to more rigid modern constructions it lacks 'attack' and extension at both frequency extremes. However, it is very nicely made and looks cool.
YNWOAN said:
I'm quite sure that the moment of inertia and effective mass in this context are two sides of the same coin. The fact that the bulk of the mass is concentrated close to the pivot point and not distributed evenly along the length of the arm does not change its effectiveness. You can get the same moment of inertia with evenly distributed mass vs mass concentrated at the same point.
However, doing it the way it is done in the Series III does put extra demands on the arm wand in terms of the amount of rigidity required to avoid excessive flexing. With this consideration, I would opt to add mass at the head shell instead.
It also can tell you in conjunction with a spectrum analyzer ( that's how I use it) the frequency response, distortion sidebands on pure sine waves, proper antiskating and tracking capabilities.
And - they usually give you some excellent examples of well produced music where you can judge how the systems reproduces the attack and decay especially at the frequency extremes.
My favourite is the one produced in Canada by Floyd Toole.
Hi All / Lee,
I Should have been more accurate, my Grado is the prestige gold mm cart, black plastic body. Worked better in my Linn arm. In the SME the sound became harsh and a bit spitty.
But I cant recommend the AT33PTG enough for the SME, and only cost me 25% more than the Grado. This made the biggest difference in my system, having recently changed, turntable, arm, phono stage and cart.
Lee, did you rewire the detachable arm tube, and the rest of the internal wiring. Also what cable did you use for the external leads. I am going to use Cardas for the internal?
Cheers
Ian
I Should have been more accurate, my Grado is the prestige gold mm cart, black plastic body. Worked better in my Linn arm. In the SME the sound became harsh and a bit spitty.
But I cant recommend the AT33PTG enough for the SME, and only cost me 25% more than the Grado. This made the biggest difference in my system, having recently changed, turntable, arm, phono stage and cart.
Lee, did you rewire the detachable arm tube, and the rest of the internal wiring. Also what cable did you use for the external leads. I am going to use Cardas for the internal?
Cheers
Ian
Hi Ian. Mine too is a Grado Prestige Gold MM. But the main body is silver in colour, and I'm wondering if it should be gold as I've seen gold coloured ones on the net.
As for the rewire, it's a bit of a pain as the wire runs down the arm tube into a connector at the base of the arm where it detaches. Then there's another run of wire from that down to the phono connectors underneath the TT. I have removed everything from the inside and just ran a straight run of wire from the cart down to the phono plugs. I've also made them long enough to reach to the phono stage.
Unfortunately I haven't yet built a working phono stage to test it with!
When I'm up and running I'll attempt adding some mass to the arm and playing about with a few ideas and report my findings.
Regards, Lee.
As for the rewire, it's a bit of a pain as the wire runs down the arm tube into a connector at the base of the arm where it detaches. Then there's another run of wire from that down to the phono connectors underneath the TT. I have removed everything from the inside and just ran a straight run of wire from the cart down to the phono plugs. I've also made them long enough to reach to the phono stage.
Unfortunately I haven't yet built a working phono stage to test it with!
When I'm up and running I'll attempt adding some mass to the arm and playing about with a few ideas and report my findings.
Regards, Lee.
SME rewire
Hi All
For those of you that say the arm is naff I am selling some ear cleaner. I bought it for the dog but have enough spare to sell on e bay!.
I am in the process of silver wiring the same model and the hard bit is removing the wire from the arm tube. After that consider at what height the arm will be mounted if possible. The silver wire is invariably stiffer than copper so coil it under the pillar even if it makes for a longer piece of wire. Coil two clockwise and two anticlockwise to counteract any tension in the wire. The more space under the pillar the better so junk and thick bedplates and raise the arm to its limits if possible.
I use a Mayware MC7 and Goldring eroica (not at same time) and both give good results. Also use the fluid damper if you have it and don't be afraid to ring SME for advice
Hi All
For those of you that say the arm is naff I am selling some ear cleaner. I bought it for the dog but have enough spare to sell on e bay!.
I am in the process of silver wiring the same model and the hard bit is removing the wire from the arm tube. After that consider at what height the arm will be mounted if possible. The silver wire is invariably stiffer than copper so coil it under the pillar even if it makes for a longer piece of wire. Coil two clockwise and two anticlockwise to counteract any tension in the wire. The more space under the pillar the better so junk and thick bedplates and raise the arm to its limits if possible.
I use a Mayware MC7 and Goldring eroica (not at same time) and both give good results. Also use the fluid damper if you have it and don't be afraid to ring SME for advice
Hi Lee / towaho,
I am about to order the parts for the rewire, Using this shielded cable and components;
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=488
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=503
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=433
Then strip back the shielding to fit within the arm and fit new tags and RCA's, so I minimise solder joints.
Does this sound correct to you guys?
Lee
How did you remove the Arm tube connector and was there any cotton wool or balsa inside?
Are you still using the arm tube connectors, or did you bypass them so only two solder joints are used?
Many thanks
Ian
I am about to order the parts for the rewire, Using this shielded cable and components;
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=488
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=503
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=433
Then strip back the shielding to fit within the arm and fit new tags and RCA's, so I minimise solder joints.
Does this sound correct to you guys?
Lee
How did you remove the Arm tube connector and was there any cotton wool or balsa inside?
Are you still using the arm tube connectors, or did you bypass them so only two solder joints are used?
Many thanks
Ian
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